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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Welding certification
- - By Hotshot01 Date 04-13-2016 19:40
I have some questions on my welding certification I just obtained through arcet (stick unlimited thickness) after I welded the test and turned it in I realized that it "will not enter me into the AWS certified welder program" considering this is my first time obtaining a certification on my own and not employer sponsor, can anyone explain this? Is it not beneficial to get certified this way? I just want to make sure before I take anymore welding tests on my own.

Thank you!
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 04-13-2016 21:15
Even being an "AWS Certified Welder" may not be of much help. It does however provide a somewhat more reliable trail of documentation. The typical tests and I elections are the same as what is required by the code. The difference lies in the qualification of the facility.
In any case you may be required to test prior to employment. Thats half the fun. Ours always best to show up with a few skills than a ton of papers.

If you are interested in being an AWS Certified Welder you need to make sure the facility you test at is an Accredited Test Facility.
Parent - By Hotshot01 Date 04-13-2016 22:03
Oh ok, I just don't want anyone to look at it and say it's not "AWS" so it's worthless, but it's a standard D1.1 certification and I plan to get more certifications on my own. I've just always had my employer deal with the paperwork part of the certifications, I just did the welding so getting them on my own is new to me.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 04-14-2016 01:08
Hotshot,

WELCOME TO THE AWS WELDING FORUM!!

Gerald answered very well but lets try to make sure you see what happened:

You went to a lab or an independent CWI, ran a test coupon and they tested it. 

They turned out not to be an ATF (as Gerald mentioned) so while you tested to and are now qualified to D1.1 you are NOT certified through the AWS Certified Welder program which is SUPPOSED to go with you and eliminate (only reduces at best, not eliminates) the need to be tested over and over.  Still AWS, but AWS does not truly certify, they only establish the guidelines and now provide a database if you want to pay the extra dollars.

An employer may look at any previous certs and base their decision to give you a try on the fact that you have previously passed a welder qualification to a particular process and/or procedure but is really wise to test you at their facility anyway so they know you can actually do it the way they specify in their procedures (these can differ though they will be very close in most circumstances).

If you want some paper for doing side jobs and to impress and prove ability, don't try to get too many.  It will get costly.  Run a 3G (vertical up groove weld) probably in 3/8" thickness in the different processes you want to have covered.  That will prove vertical, horizontal, and flat ability in those processes for materials up to 3/4" in thickness.  That will get you in the door, cover many applications, and keep down the costs. 

Let the employer give you the thick stuff and all positions and whatever else they want at their expense. 

Don't worry about the lab not being an ATF, that will only cost you more money.  Again, let an employer deal with that if they want you on that kind of a list. 

Best wishes.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 04-14-2016 05:29
Brent
hit it out of the park
cert's get you to the top of list
but the company will test you
and that is what counts
I have had so many certs I never renewed
costs $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I need it I go pay to renew it and retake the test
not a big deal for me, pass it once should pass every time after
even though we all have bad days:eek::red:
(not that I need much to do with my health issues)
just my thoughts
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - - By Hotshot01 Date 04-14-2016 12:01
Thank you, I just wanted paperwork to have a side business, it would get very pricey for me to get all of my certifications that I've previously had through employers on my own
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 04-14-2016 12:52
That's a whole different issue, and sorta what I expected to eventually be revealed in this thread.

Some things to consider for your "side business"

If you are selling your side work as Code compliant, not only do you need performance qualification records (certs) for every process, joint, thickness, position and metal group you weld.  You will need written, code compliant, Welding Procedure Specifications that cover every scenario.

Just having a test record (Cert) does not make your work code compliant.  Back in the day, there were lots of signs out there "Joe's Certified Welding" and the like... What does that really mean?   Maybe a lot, maybe not much at all.   "Joe's our certified welder so we will give him that aluminum fuel tank or broken mag wheel... (but his cert is in steel SMAW)...

Not trying to rain on your parade... And there is nothing at all wrong with having a side business... Just be very careful about what you advertise by word and text.  If something goes wrong, if your customer abuses the equipment and it breaks or someone gets hurt... They WILL COME AFTER YOU.   Liability must be part of what you think about when you do your own work for money... Sad but true.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 04-14-2016 23:43
Hotshot,

Lawrence is SSOO right about the liability, trust us, most of us have been and/or are welders.  And I have owned my current welding business here in AZ for 20 years now (WWOOOWWW!! Yes, it has been that long!). 

Making some extra/side money is great, but watch your backside because everyone else is trying to bite you there. 

Now, Lawrence, I hope this is just in the wording:  you don't need a SEPARATE WPS for every joint, though I am definitely not one who advocates a one size fits all approach.  But there are many that can be grouped together all other things being within proper Clause 3 parameters.  And positions,  take a good look at the commentary for D1.1, as well as other materials provided through the bookstore for preparing PQR's and WPS's.  You can put them together as well, but, granted, depending upon the electrode, process, and welding parameters employed. 

I just had this little debate with some... well, god complex inspectors, who lost their case miserably with the mountain of evidence to the contrary of their stand on needing a totally different WPS for every single position of every process and every joint,  etc.  Clause 3 and 4 with their commentaries and B2.1 and 'The Professional's Advisor on Procedure Qualification Variables' need to be carefully reviewed in the development of PQR's and WPS's.  There are also some great articles by some hillbilly from the east coast in the IT on the subject.  :lol:

Now, while anyone CAN write a WPS, very few can get it even close to right.  To get ones that will really mean anything will cost you about $150-200 each.  And, since you need to have one to test to, unless you have a copy of the WPS you welded to then those certs they gave you are really worthless.  And once you have them, they are just as good for that joint in production so you already have a start on your WPS collection.  Don't lose them. 

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 04-19-2016 23:25
You WILL Test on EVERY "Worthwhile" Job you go to. Regardless of the Papers you have in a Folder.
- By 803056 (*****) Date 04-19-2016 10:08 Edited 04-19-2016 10:14
The art of developing a WPS that suits the customer’s needs is the one obstacle that makes it difficult to write a “canned” WPS that is suitable for everyone.

The SWPS is a attempt to do exactly that; a WPS that is appropriate for many applications, yet for the most part they fail to meet the needs of the customer; the welder. For the most part, WPS written to meet the requirements of ASME Section IX and SWPS meet the needs of the engineer, but fail miserably in meeting the needs of the welder.

A general WPS, i.e., SWPS, available from AWS for a licensing fee, are too general to be of use by many welders. The WPS should provide the welder with specific information needed to set up and make a weld that is compliant with the applicable code. If one thinks of a WPS as a recipe that describes the conditions needed to deposit a compliant weld, a lot of missteps can be prevented. Think of a recipe for a cake, there are many different cakes, each requires different ingredients and different amounts of each ingredient. The specific ways to incorporate those ingredients, the temperature needed to properly cook the batter, etc. must be included in the recipe. It is no different when depositing a weld. The cake recipe and the WPS should be specific enough that the end results is what is expected. The recipe doesn’t assume the person using it is a professional chief. The recipe assumes the person using it has a rudimentary understanding of cooking and if the recipe is followed, a tasty treat should be the end result. Likewise, the person developing the WPS is the professional that is well versed in the technology and codes. The person using the WPS is usually neither an expert in welding technology nor codes. That being the case, the WPS must provide the information the welder needs to produce a weld that has the required mechanical properties and meets the acceptance criteria of the applicable code.

AWS D1.1 does a pretty good job of delineating the minimum content of the WPS, the appropriate ranges for the welding parameters, and it also defines how a WPS must be qualified by testing if it does not meet the criteria of a prequalified WPS. The WPS can include several weld types if the WPS provides sufficient information to the welder, i.e., joint details for a prequalified groove detail, fillet welds, plug and slot welds, etc. A simple “all grooves and fillets” does not meet the needs of the welder or the code.

One must keep in mind the needs of the manufacturing operations and the requirements of the Owner, i.e., the customer. There are situations where a WPS that is developed for a particular joint is appropriate. A manufacturing operation where the welder is responsible for a particular part may use a WPS developed for the one part. Some DOTs require a separate WPS for each groove detail and for single pass or multiple pass fillet welds. Should that be the case, the requirements specified by the DOT will be defined in the project specifications.

The WPS must meet the needs of the user (the welder). It is pretty easy to see when the WPS is meets the needs of the welder because it is well worn from continual use by the welder. On the other hand, the WPS that sits on the shelf collecting dust is one that doesn’t meet the needs of the welder and missed the objective of its existence.

Best regards - Al
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Welding certification

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