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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / D1.3 galvanized weld qual questions
- - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 06-16-2016 18:43
I had a quick question.  In D1.3 it says that galvanized coatings are an essential variable for WPS qualification and that if removed the procedure is still qualified it just cant be added or more than qualified added.  So how I take that is I can qualify a group of joints to a set up of galvanized procedures and they are still good to use for steel procedures that fall under the pre qual material listings that are not galvanized at all. 

Secondly under 4.7.2 Im trying to find if the same works for welder qualification and it directs me to 4.8.2 which states "separate welder qualifications shall be required for welding galvanized sheet steel or sheet steel with other coating. "  So my question is if the welder qualify on galvanized steel are they still good? or do they need to qualify to both?

JM
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-17-2016 00:06
They way I read it, for both procedure and performance.

1.  If qualified for galvanized, also qualified for uncoated... Not visa versa

2.  If qualified for primer, also qualified for uncoated....  Not visa versa.

3.  Galvanized does not qualify for Primer

4.  Primer does not qualify for Galvanized

BTW  D1.3 are the easiest PQR's you will ever run  :)
Parent - - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 06-17-2016 00:12
I got that but the welder qualification wasn't that clear.  I called AWS and they said to qualify them both un-coated and coated.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-17-2016 12:30
I disagree.

I think you were given wrong information.

4.7.1.1 Base Metals. Performance qualification established
with anyone of the steels permitted by this code
shall be considered as performance qualification to weld
any of the other steels
, provided they have no coating or
have the same coating used in qualification.

If the essential variable for PQR's allow welding on bare metal by virtue of a PQR qualified WPS on coated (galv or primer) it would be pretty silly to require performance qualification not to be parallel in nature:

Table 4.2 (12) “A change in the type of coating material, or the addition, but not
deletion, of coating material on the base metal.”

Making an inquiry with Darcy Yantz.

I'll let you know if he responds.

I've been wrong before eh?
Parent - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 06-17-2016 23:50
I know Im not saying 4.7.1.1 does not say that, but it does not spell it out the other way like Table 4.2 does for the PQR/WPS.   I was looking for something clear.   I agree it would be dumb not to if its OK in the PQR but does it say it for Welder qualification?
Parent - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 06-20-2016 22:02
Also if it is saying ADDITION but NOT deletion of a coating require re-qualification does that mean that galvanized can be prequalified?
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 06-17-2016 12:52
AWS is the last place you want to call.
Parent - - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 06-20-2016 21:37
But the code doesnt say it exactly like that.

J
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-21-2016 14:45 Edited 06-21-2016 14:58
I got a reply back from the D1.3 2015 committee chair Darcy Yantz. 

I asked the question based off my own D1.3 work and quals, since they are pretty darned close to the questions you were asking.   Darcy's responses are bold.

All our PQR’s have been performed with the coatings used in production and Table 4.2 appears to say that those qualified procedures would cover the welding of uncoated material as well.  We have survived uncounted audits without any question.

Table 4.2 (12) “A change in the type of coating material, or the addition, but not
deletion, of coating material on the base metal.”

I was asked if the same could be said about welder performance qualifications.  If Johnny did his performance qualification testing on primer and G90, is he also qualified on uncoated base metal…  My quick response was “of course he is qualified.”   At this point I was asked to show them in the code where exactly that is noted in text, table or figure..  And I am stumped unless we can hang our hat on 4.7.1.1

"You are correct.
A welder that qualifies on uncoated will need to requalify for coated.  A welder qualified on coated material may weld non-coated."


4.7.1.1 Base Metals. Performance qualification established
with anyone of the steels permitted by this code
shall be considered as performance qualification to weld
any of the other steels, provided they have no coating or
have the same coating used in qualification.
This clause means a welder that qualifies on coated material is qualified for non-coated.

Can I confidently read this to say?:
•         Performance qualification on Galvanized also qualifies for uncoated base metal (but not visa versa) YES
•         Performance qualification on Primer also qualifies for uncoated base metal (but not visa versa) YES

It seems to make little sense to demand performance qualification on uncoated base metal if the operator has already qualified on paint or galv.   But 4.8.2 makes the waters a bit murky.

4.8.2 Specific Conditions. Separate welder qualifications
shall be required for welding galvanized sheet steel
or sheet steel with other coating.
This clause means welders need to be qualified with galv or coated material.

What do you say Darcy….  This must have come up before eh?    Are my guys qualified on uncoated metal by virtue of primer and galv? YES

Edit from me
I'm sitting on the D1.3 task group myself, but only for the last 2 years, so I don't speak out much as an authority.  But having contact with my betters on the committee has been a real help for me lately :)

If the answer went the other way, I would have had to increase welder performance qualification by 33%  so this is a happy ending for me  :)
Parent - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 06-21-2016 22:48
AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME thank you much.  Its imbedded in my head now. Thank you Sir!
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 06-21-2016 23:33
Great info Lawrence.  Thanks for reaching out and getting his replies.

Brent
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-22-2016 02:59
Nice work Lawrence.

Al
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-22-2016 14:52
Ha!

Let it be known that my first response a week ago was the correct one :)
Parent - By MRWeldSoCal (***) Date 06-22-2016 15:25
Thank you again
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 06-22-2016 22:44
Well...yeah...but, now we have it from..'the horse's mouth'.

:lol:
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / D1.3 galvanized weld qual questions

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