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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Certifying new welders for a WPS
- - By illmaniac123 (*) Date 06-20-2016 12:20
I have been dodged by a lot of CWI's on this question for some reason. If we write up a WPS and qualify it with a good PQR, do all of the other welders have to do the same test coupon and have the DT and inspections?

We do a lot of tubing and pipe and use a WPS for GTAW root and GMAW cover. We don't have capabilities in house for tension, RT, UT, Microetch. We have to send coupons to a lab and I am sure it is expensive. Do all of our welders have to make the same coupon and send out to the lab or is there some way of qualifying by Visual inspection? We are using ASME IX
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 06-20-2016 12:26
Any CWI's that dodged this question should have their certs revoked.
The qualification of welders HAS NOTHING to do with the qualification of procedures, but with two exceptions.
1) You can qualify a procedure and a welder at the same time. But you are not required to do so.
2) You must qualify a welder With a procedure but not FOR a procedure.
Parent - - By illmaniac123 (*) Date 06-20-2016 14:13 Edited 06-20-2016 14:16
So lets say that Bob comes into the shop and he welds a coupon for a certain size pipe. We send that out to a lab and comes back acceptable. This information lets us complete the WPS and PQR formulation. So lets say the WPS and PQR are completed.

Now lets say Steve is a brand new employee and he is assigned to a job to weld the exact assembly as Bob. To list him as being allowed to weld that material, process, position, etc, does he have to make a coupon that would conform to the WPS and we send that out to the lab for the same testing?

We have a bunch of Hobart books that were collected and one of them states for performance qualification "Welders  are required to demonstrate their skills by using prequalified or qualified procedures to prepare sample welds. The sample welds are tested and evaluated according to the specified quality and guidelines for the job. The guidelines should be a published code or company standard?

So with this example, WPS and PQR are qualified for ASME IX. Can our CWI do visual testing on Steve's coupon and cut it apart to do our own bend test (representative of ASME but not exactly)? If work believes that Steve's coupon would satisfy the requirement for a good weld, is Steve good to go?
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 06-20-2016 16:06
1) The performance coupon for the new welder does have to comply with the WPS but it doesn't have to be the same dimensions or thickness. Just compliant with the WPS.
In other words, under ASME section IX, you can qualify a procedure on plate and then test your welders to the monster coupon. This is in essence what I do.
2) You don't even need a CWI to approve your coupon. Quite frankly, that's a waste of money.
3) Yes, you can do the bend testing yourself.
Parent - - By illmaniac123 (*) Date 06-20-2016 17:05 Edited 06-20-2016 17:12
Monster coupon?

And the testing in the ASME IX code for performance qualifiection requires 2 tension tests for most groove welds. This cannot be avoided or substituted can it? I wouldn't expect so.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 06-20-2016 17:18
The monster coupon is the Triangle Engineering name for a 2" NPS pipe coupon that is 5/8" thick that is specially designed for welder performance qualification under ASME Section IX. It came into being a little over a decade ago with a Code change. It has become a standard for ASME performance qualification.
You do not do tension testing for performance quals under ASME.
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 06-20-2016 14:45 Edited 06-20-2016 16:32
You did mention a code but this response covers many codes. :)

Just a question, Is there a CWI that works for your company (Not that one is needed for qualification testing in most cases) ?

I would imagine (or hope) the people responsible for qualification of procedures/performance have a copy of the code and understand this concept.

As already indicated, Procedure and Performance qualification are 100% unrelated except as noted.

A welder may make the welds on a PQR that supports a specific WPS but may not even be qualified to weld under the ranges of the WPS.

The WPS is qualified based upon a set of variables with ranges as allowed by the code for Procedure Qualiifcation.
The welder is qualified based upon a set of variables with ranges as allowed by the code for Performance qualification.

The coupons needed for performance can vary and would be dependent upon the ranges needed for production and have nothing to do with the WPS used in production. The WPS used during qualification must meet the ranges for the variables used during testimg but have nothing to do with the ranges used during production.

ASME Sec IX for instance says a Pipe WPS can be developed from a plate PQR. A welder that welds that plate up is also qualified for pipe but only down to 2-7/8" OD.

Hope this helps
- By 803056 (*****) Date 06-20-2016 17:31
While it is not mandated a CWI administer or evaluate the welder performance coupons, the nature of the questions asked are a good indication you should consider bring someone in that understands the code you are trying to meet. He or she can probably point you in the right direction so you don't get hopelessly lost in the forest.

Recently I conducted a three day seminar for a company that works to D17.1 and B2.1 so they could better understand the complexity of qualifying WPSs and welders. The three day seminar cost them less than the cost of qualify a WPS and saved them hours of angsts and many dollars of wasted time and labor.

Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Certifying new welders for a WPS

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