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Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Safety / Welding and Pace Makers
- - By TimGary (****) Date 07-05-2016 13:47
I had an Welder ask me this morning for the straight scoop on welding and pace makers, as he is getting mixed info from his doctors.
I've always heard that welding and pace makers don't mix, but decided I need to separate fact from fiction before telling him that he'll have to learn a new trade.

After internet searching, several sources say about the same things as the AWS Safety and Health Fact Sheet #16 -
https://app.aws.org/technical/facts/FACT-16.pdf
Which is basically that the electromagnetic fields generated from welding equipment may interfere with the operation of the pace maker and as such, welding activities should be restricted in a manner that makes being a Welder in a high production shop pretty much out of the question.

Other sources state that welding over 120 amps (another says 400 amps), should not be done.

I've seen enough info from trusted sources like AWS , American Heart Association, St. Jude Medical, etc. to make me need to tell this Welder that if he indeed gets a pacemaker, he'll need a new trade, and to recommend to our HR dept that those with pace makers not be allowed in our welding shop.

I'm wondering if anyone here can contribute real life experiences on the subject?

Thanks,
Tim
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 07-05-2016 14:03
Before I made any severe decision I would certainly like to see some empirical data. I mean, given the inverse square law it seems to me that unless a person is rubbing his chest on the machine that the electromagnetic field would be greatly attenuated.
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 07-05-2016 21:21
I asked my EP about the problems with Afib and the possible need for a pacemaker and he didn't seem to concerned however I am not at that stage yet. There are however a few articles online referring to maximum amps etc when welding with a pacemaker.

My afib comes and goes randomly so no hardware needed yet.

I figure if it happens, I will just take up brain surgery or something. I don't think they have to keep a continuity log!

Gerald
Parent - By Michelle Dinges Date 10-26-2017 05:23
I have a workshop for automation. Certain days ago, my welders doing their work like arc welding and that moment suddenly, one of the welders was injured by a spark. So, safety is the first priority for welders. I decided for them for safety purpose and allocated them Revco Bsx welding jackets. First of all, let's take care of the safety of the workers.
Parent - By mariagarcia (*) Date 04-05-2019 10:42
The issue is the strong magnetic fields generated around the leads.
Parent - By mariagarcia (*) Date 04-17-2019 10:02
Not sure about this .
- - By mike wiebe 3 (*) Date 07-05-2016 19:20
My Dad had his pace maker put in 5 years ago and was told to quit welding by his Dr.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 07-05-2016 20:19
Cardio fibrulation is certainly something which deserves due consideration. This is something I understand, I have had 5 cardioversions, 2 ablations, a catheterization, and have been on numerous medications. The primary concern is of course blood clotting and stroke. This is why virtually everyone who has alternative therapies such as pace makers also use blood thinners. Many people live quite well with A-fib simply taking blood thinners to prevent clotting. But sometimes people have to make a living as well. I would certainly be sure my doctor understood what welding actually was before I put myself on government assistance.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-08-2016 01:09 Edited 07-08-2016 01:29
I suggest the manufacturer be contacted. They have to subject their pacemakers to a battery of tests to get FDA approval. They can most likely shed some real insight on the subject.

If I were to make an educated guess, I suspect GTAW using high freq would be more of a hazard than DC. HFAC induces eddy currents into any conductive material (human bodily fluids are conductive). The eddy currents might affect the pace maker, but there is the phenomena of skin effect, which would mean the closer the source of the field, the greater the intensity of the field. So, draping the the welding lead over the shoulder would not be the best idea.

Again, the manufacturer of the pacemaker would be the best source of information. Here's a website that might be helpful: http://www.medtronic.com/us-en/patients/electromagnetic-guide/tools-industrial.html

Best regards - Al
Parent - By lo-hi (**) Date 07-08-2016 20:11
I worked with a plumber that had a fibulater - pacemaker and told him that it might be a good idea to get somebody else to fit. He wouldn't even wear gloves half the time until the day I lit him up. After that he ground every fitting and wore gloves. Told him when he got home to ask his wife if I should give her the check back or try again later. Some people have no sense of humor.
- By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-08-2016 01:43
When Googling "welding with a pacemaker" the following shows up: 

From twi-global.com=

"As a general rule, working close to sources of electromagnetic radiation from 'conventional' welding equipment e.g. MMA (SMA), MIG/MAG (GMA) or TIG (GTA) equipment, is unlikely to present much of a risk to a pacemaker user although it is advisable to reduce the exposure as much as possible. Welding cables should not be wrapped around the arm or draped over the shoulder and should be kept as far away from the user as possible. Where possible, twist the welding cables together, and ensure that the pacemaker user is not stood in a current loop, with the torch on one side and the return cable on the other.

Working in the vicinity of equipment which produces very strong electro-magnetic fields such as resistance welders or power sources which produce pulsing magnetic fields, particularly where the pulsing rate matches or is close to the pulse rate of the pacemaker user, can be a hazardous situation. In the presence of pulsing magnetic fields, the pacemaker can be fooled into thinking that the heart is beating normally and does not need assistance. In this case it will switch off with the risk therefore of a cardiac arrest and collapse. Removal from the magnetic field will result in the pacemaker returning to its normal, programmed condition. Exposure to very strong magnetic fields can clear the memory of the pacemaker. With more modern pacemakers, it is likely that they will reset to a default condition and pulse continuously until reprogrammed."

From a report by St. Jude's=

"Effects of Arc Welding on St. Jude Medical Implantable
Cardiac Rhythm Devices
Background
Electric arc welding produces intense electrical and magnetic fields that can affect the function
of pacemakers and implantable cardioverter defibrillators (ICDs). This interference is caused by
the device sensing extraneous signals from the welding equipment that have characteristics
mimicking cardiac activity. While electromagnetic interference (EMI) from arc welding equipment
will not damage the implanted device, it can inhibit pacing, trigger the device’s noise response
(typically leading to asynchronous pacing), or produce inadvertent antitachycardia pacing,
cardioversion or defibrillation therapies. These effects are temporary, and will cease when the
patient turns off or moves away from the arc welding equipment.
Pacemakers and ICDs programmed to a bipolar sensing configuration are less likely to be
affected by such extraneous interference than those programmed to unipolar sensing.
Many patients with St. Jude Medical devices use or have been in close proximity to electric
welders with no apparent problems. In addition, several reports have documented the absence
of interference when patients with ICDs used arc welding machines. However, we cannot
guarantee that a patient will not experience device interference associated with arc welding."

Also articles by Lincoln Electric and many others show up.  Check it out...BUT, CONSULT YOUR PERSONAL DR AND THE EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURER ABOVE ALL ELSE.  DON'T TAKE ANYONE ELSE'S OPINION AS GOSPEL WHEN DEALING WITH YOUR LIFE!!

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
- - By Bowtie1952 Date 09-20-2019 05:27 Edited 09-20-2019 05:30
I just had an AV Node Ablation done this past Monday, which is an ablation and then they installed a defibrillator and pacemaker. When I asked the doctor if if would be able to continue welding, he said no in a very stern voice. So after it was all done the next morning a representative from the company said I could weld except arc welding, and not over 160 amps. I then said to her the doctor said no welding. She said you can, but we prefer you don’t. Sounded like a CYA statement.
Anybody have any other info that might help ???? I have 2 tig welders ( one about 3 month’s old, and 2 mig welders. I don’t think i’m very happy right now.
Thank you in advance,
Steve
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 09-20-2019 13:45
Wrap yourself in tin foil and make sure you are grounded! Oh yea, don't forget to wear a tin foil cap, grounded as well.

All in jest, but it would be interesting to see some actual test results that provides definitive information on the subject. I know it has come up several times. I did some research on the internet and found that the devise manufactures have to pass some standardized tests to make sure the devises will continue to operate if they are affected by an external field. The strength of the field wasn’t defined in the article, but I believe the boys in Washington set the standards. How welding actually measures up is the question.

I did read that welding with high frequency is more problematic with regards to an induced field. That’s why they recommend the welder refrain from draping or wrapping the welding lead around themselves. It all has to do with eddy currents. AC is more likely to induce a magnetic field than a DC. The reasoning is that AC is the equivalent to a moving field which induces an eddy current in an object place close to the field. That’s fine with a metallic object, but unless you have a metallic object in your body (let’s say a pace maker?), it shouldn’t be an issue. Wait, back that wagon up a bit, isn’t there iron in the blood that binds with the oxygen to transport it around the body. So, maybe there is something to all this after all. I wish I knew more about it.

Now, if I could only get rid of the uncontrollable twitch I've developed ......

Al
Parent - By Jarhead1 (**) Date 09-20-2019 16:27
Follow your doctor’s instructions about being around such equipment.

https://weldingproductivity.com/article/heart-healthy/

-Stay Safe my freind.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Safety / Welding and Pace Makers

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