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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / You killed it anyhow
- - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-21-2016 18:41
Shame on you faceless, soulless AWS corporate decision makers.
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 07-21-2016 19:58 Edited 07-21-2016 20:21
Not dead, yet....
Must have been a test...

(I saw the redirection note too, that is now gone)
Parent - By Trackergd (**) Date 07-21-2016 20:03
I stink at tests...
Parent - - By Trackergd (**) Date 07-21-2016 20:06 Edited 07-21-2016 20:13
Uh Oh...   I just got the email.... :cry:

"The AWS Member Network, exclusively for AWS Members"
Parent - - By In Tension (**) Date 07-21-2016 21:55
I just now saw this in my email and realized what's going down.  Lame.
I'm all for improvements on the format but the members-only thing is a bad move.  Do they think that only AWS members need welding guidance or are qualified to contribute knowledge?  If they feel this will compel otherwise non-members to pay their dues, they're mistaken.  Sorry AWS, the internet is a large place and they can find somewhere else to hang out and talk shop.
Remind me why I'm a member again?  Is it so I can receive 200 pages of advertisements every month in the Welding Journal?  Nope, it's only because the dues are built in to the recert fee.
I just don't see any advantage to closing the forum to non-members.  Nothing to gain for all involved.  AWS should issue a statement of clarification on this.  I think with all the time volunteered here by the regulars we deserve an explanation.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-21-2016 23:18
Both in a thread here and one on the beta site we have gotten some lame answers from Alfred.  They want to be able to reach out to ALL AWS members through the database and mainframe.  But, they can already do that with mass mailings anytime they want.  They will have a lower turnout actually using the forum than they currently do.  Percentage wise, I don't care if you are talking politics, religion, school activities, or the work place, you always have the 10% that do 90% and 90% that pick up the rest of the 10% or somethings just don't get done because you can't depend on most people. 

Look at our section meetings across the country.  Overall, you don't get 10% of a sections membership to come to meetings, even one per year.  Less than 2% of your membership comes to more than one meeting per year.  Even section officers, how many make more than 4 meetings per year?  I can tell because I used to be a section chairman and got the stats on section membership and I can tell when I look at pics in the Welding Journal how low attendance was, unless it's at a school and all the students are in the picture, cheaters.  Most of them aren't even student members but the pic looked good. 

Back on topic, if they think people are going to participate in the new forum...they flunked sociology.  They haven't got a clue about human lack of participation.  Most people, young and old, who get on the internet are there for video games, and oggling; no, not googling, they are looking at other things.  They can't be bothered with something work related on their own time. 

I give it six months.  Any takers?

Brent
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 07-21-2016 23:36 Edited 07-21-2016 23:40
Brent,
less than 6
I take the under
and say 3 months max
and my lawyers file suit in 30 days:evil::twisted:
just my thoughts
sincerely,
Kent
edit: watch out AWS my lawyers are the best
we already talked about this
they really want AWS to pay their fee
which the loser pays in a civil suit....ooppppppssssss:eek::evil::twisted:
Parent - - By electrode (***) Date 07-22-2016 07:59
Brent;

Maybe I'm missing something essential here but, can I ask a question?

What do you give "six months"?
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-22-2016 21:27
Any life whatsoever the new forum will exude as it opens up will last about 6 mo until all the newness is gone for those who never participate in anything anyway. 

Then, the forum will slowly just cease any activity.  My personal two tin pennies worth of the demise of this ONCE GREATEST WELDING FORUM OF THE AMERICAN WELDING SOCIETY!! To somewhat paraphrase the late, great, text wall master, Henry.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 07-22-2016 12:19
Brent,
Of course you have gotten lame answers. This is indefensible.
Parent - By Metarinka (****) Date 07-25-2016 22:38
I came out of (semi) retirement just to comment. I've been posting here for 7 years, my AWS membership comes and goes. Right now I don't have a membership as I haven't found it particularly necessary to my current life work.  I guess I won't be seeing any of you in the new and improved forums.
Parent - By weldplus (*) Date 07-29-2016 12:39
I hope AWS does not close this board. It is a helpful resource for welders as well as suppliers.
The cost to host this is not much, and if they need moderators all they need to do is ask.
We are AWS members for 20+ years and think this is a good place for welders to learn from one another.
So few welding supply houses these days have knowledgeable help, except the independents.
- - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-22-2016 02:33
Tim asked about this forum's outlook on the beta site, my response:

"It has an old age terminal disease and as all things under the current health uncare system has been deemed to be not worthy of efforts to restore it to health.

Of course, the poor health currently attributed to it is the results of the efforts of those with no practical experience and only a desire for self aggrandizing to impart their version of a better system and foist it upon those who had no say though they did quite a bit of kicking and screaming all to no avail. 

And, just as with the health uncare system, it has only raised the rates upon everyone by making membership mandatory while purporting better services to all 'FOR FREE'. 

Yep, I'm from the Government (or AWS) and I'm here to help you!  

Been there, done that."
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 07-22-2016 03:56
This has gone
to far
it makes my brain spin
https://stratalux.youcanbook.me/index.jsp
$500?????????????
help me understand this stupidity
I thought the AWS was for
sharing knowledge about welding and metal work
MY MISTAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek::yell:
this has gone to far
Kent
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 07-22-2016 06:08
btw
AWS
I hide everything
shell corporations
off shore
love Nevada
good luck finding me and my stuff
btw the Amish like me
good luck finding my house
btw not in my name......ooooopppppssssssssss
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - - By anieves (*) Date 07-22-2016 14:46
That is Amazon Web Services not American Welding Society
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-22-2016 16:08
After all the well thought out and articulate comments and questions about what the AWS is really after here... This is the single posting you respond to...

Oh thank you for clearing up that misunderstanding..

Now I will feel so much better when you shut down the Form or exclude our colleagues from it's content.

Sharp as a tack young man.  Your golden nuggets of wisdom are clearly on display here and now we can see why the AWS selected you for this work.
- - By Trackergd (**) Date 07-22-2016 10:06
Since time is short, I will quote "Sourdough"

"I'm going to the beer store"

And lament the end of the forum as we know it.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-22-2016 13:56 Edited 08-24-2016 15:05
Sourdough will return in a couple of months to tell us how great he is and how the rest of us are robot shills for the profiteers who are AWS.

He will find the forum gone... Presciently, prophetically, gone.

Will it make him happy and full of joy to be finally proven right?
- - By Trackergd (**) Date 07-22-2016 10:18
I am spending part of this morning sending emails to everyone I can in the AWS headquarters using the contacts page.  I suggest you all do as well.  It may not do anything, but a miracle is always possible.  At least they will know they angered a fair number of members....PAYING members.

We can go down with a whimper or go down fighting.  I have made my choice.
Parent - - By Trackergd (**) Date 07-25-2016 12:33
Not one single reply from any of the 4-5 emails I sent to AWS Staff last week.

Well, well....
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-25-2016 18:00
I'm at the headquarters right now.

Invited Alfred to lunch yesterday.

Waiting for a response.
Parent - - By anieves (*) Date 07-25-2016 18:42
Lawrence,

I never got an invitation. If you have some free time, please stop by the 5th floor to say hello.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-25-2016 21:40
Hmm

I sent a private message :(

Ok...  I'll try to get to you tomorrow...  Hopefully they will let peasants up to the 5th floor.
Parent - - By electrode (***) Date 07-27-2016 07:45 Edited 08-28-2016 14:48
.
Parent - By Trackergd (**) Date 07-27-2016 12:10
Lawrence,

I am curious as well.  I did send about 4-5 emails to contacts within the AWS.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-27-2016 12:10
Not yet my friend.

I hope to be able to get up to the 5th floor today.
Parent - - By electrode (***) Date 07-27-2016 12:29 Edited 08-28-2016 14:47
.
Parent - - By Trackergd (**) Date 07-27-2016 17:02
[McCoy voice] Dammit electrode, I'm an Inspector not a Vulcan! [/McCoy Voice] :razz:
Parent - - By electrode (***) Date 07-27-2016 17:48 Edited 08-28-2016 14:45
.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-27-2016 20:44
I had a very productive conversation with Alfred and his boss, (who can make decisions).

We talked about some alternative scenarios and compromises that serve the AWS goal of having more unique featured benefits for actual members as well as providing some access to the world at large.

I had some ideas, they had some ideas..   They obviously cant commit to anything during a 45 minute meeting, but I felt like they were listening and trying hard to comprehend some of the points that you all have made. They stopped what they were doing and gave me all the time I wanted.

I tried hard to communicate that the AWS membership will both be served well and grow if the powerful new format has some inclusiveness to the world at large worked into its format.

My overall impression is that coming at them with pitchforks and torches will make them stop reading our thoughts on this forum (which they are currently reading) 

So at least for me, further postings on this topic will be made with an eye to being persuasive by extolling the virtues of including some formatting similar to this (our most used forum topics) that is open to everybody without exclusion, while at the same time understanding that at least some content will be reserved for Members only...  

I think this sort of compromise is a big step for them to consider, and if they are willing to work it out, can make a place where we all can continue doing what we do here with the benefit of being able to attach movies, and all the other neat stuff available in the new framework.

So I'm somewhat encouraged and a bit less skeptical
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 07-27-2016 20:49
Lawrence,
So, in essence, that they anger their forum participants has no meaning to them?
This is inconsistent with a concern for unique benefits for their membership. However, it is consistent with a blind concern for increased revenue.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 07-27-2016 20:50
One more thing. They already know our thoughts. Question is, are they going to do anything about it? My recommendation is not to hold you breath.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 07-27-2016 20:56
What content is to be excluded?
Content now being offered publically?
New content?
Are they thinking that they will get more members if the others are being excluded?
Will more members join and contribute to the forum if they know the uneducated rabble are left out?
This is bizarre.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-27-2016 20:54
L,
Thank you for taking the time to go talk with them about these issues. Certainly have to give you props for that, as there is no way that I could go see them in person even for the sake of the forum and how much it means to all of us.
Again...thank you
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-27-2016 22:00
Thanks Lawrence, your time and effort are appreciated.

Brent
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 07-27-2016 22:01
Thanks
Parent - By Northweldor (***) Date 07-27-2016 22:55
Thanks! (for service above and beyond)
Parent - - By Trackergd (**) Date 07-27-2016 23:22
Thank you Lawrence.

Lets hope that the true intent of this forum and our commitment to the world at large provides us a means to help those in our profession that do not enjoy the freedoms that we do or that poverty, here or abroad will not permit them to become members of the AWS, never the less, they are welders and inspectors.  Every voice is important..well not the spammers...but you know what I mean.

I spent a lot of time reading back over just the last couple of years.  What a wealth of knowledge this forum contains.  Some from our friends who are no longer here to impart their wisdom, yet it lives on in these threads.  Things not to be found in any manual, code book, suppliers guide or chart, but learned from real life experience.  A number of members here have helped me, I hope in some small measure I have returned the favor.

There are many individuals in our society looking for jobs, looking for something that will make a fair wage and allow them to grow, this forum gives them a taste of the unique challenges we have and how we as a group overcome them and advance the science of welding.  What a fantastic resource this is.  One day a young hobby welder in his garage may ask a question here and down the road he is helping rebuild our crumbling infrastructure with a new found confidence and pride in his skill set.

Alfred, thank you for listening and taking the time to see Lawrence.  While we all can be hot heads when passionate about a particular subject, I hope that something can be worked out that pleases us all to some measure.

Garrett
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-27-2016 23:31
Thanks for the reminder Garrett,

Thanks Alfred, I know I have been a little, maybe even a lot, hard on you and the decisions and directions as I have perceived them. 

I will hold judgment and try to be fair.  Please, see what you can do to make this function for ALL interested parties. 

Brent
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 07-28-2016 04:50 Edited 07-28-2016 04:53
I may have rushed to judgement
Thank you Lawrence
like always above and beyond
good man
sincerely,
Kent
P.S. : thank you Alfred
inclusive is the way to go
exclusive is not what
peer review and fostering knowledge is about
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 07-28-2016 12:56
Maybe its just my skeptical nature but I am confused as to the definition of productive. Don't get me wrong, the effort was worthy and I, like others, appreciate it. To talk to them face to face was perhaps needed. But by your own admission nothing came out of it except an "obviously can't commit to anything during a 45 minute meeting" and that everyone seems pacified now. Well done on their part.
I obviously do not know these gentlemen but have no reason to assume they are anything but fine gentlemen. But they have a job to do and it may or may not be in the best interests of the forum participants.
So we'll see.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / You killed it anyhow

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