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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / "puddle weld" qualification?
- - By supermoto (***) Date 12-12-2016 12:38
If a welder has a SMAW qualification with F4 electrode on a limited Groove weld 3G qualification is he/she qualified to make "puddle welds" on decking to beams with 6022?  I ask because there is no groove or fillet or specific joint, just welding though the decking to the top flange of the beam without any prep. I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 12-12-2016 14:22
I think Table 4.10 and Note (b) give you what you need for that.
Parent - By supermoto (***) Date 12-12-2016 14:34
I saw where groove welds qualify plug and slot welds, but since these welds are NOT prepped with any type of joint prep and just get the decking hot enough to burn through and tie into the flange.  To be considered a plug or slot, doesn't that joint need to be prepped with an actual hole to fill?  Otherwise wouldn't this be considered a spot weld?

Maybe this would fall under D1.3 since the decking material may be under 1/8" thick.  I didn't think of that until just now.  I will look up there.  I didn't have much luck searching on here for "puddle welds".  I don't know what else to call that type of weld.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 12-12-2016 14:42
Not that I disagree with Lawrence,

BUT, I think your answer will be more in the General Notes on the first page or two of the Structurals.  It is divided up into various sections and normally after the basics, foundation, and a couple of others, will be a section on sheet steel and maybe even titled 'decking'.  Under that heading it will normally tell you that it is done per D1.3 with welders experienced in that usage and also specify the use of 6022 instead of the normal 'Low Hydrogen', '70XX', and other indicators for 'Structural Steel'. 

When you look at D1.3 there are tests specifically for decking applications.  Those qualify the welder for 'puddle' welds on decking to beams as D1.1 only goes down to 1/8" thickness as stated in the scope in Clause 1.  And, many times those thin decking sheets are welded to angle iron used to make the joists which is also pretty thin though usually at least 1/8".  D1.3 goes up to 3/16".   There is an overlap of the two codes. 

So, though welders are qualified to do plug and slot welds per Table 4.10 note b on most applications, make sure of your direct application and the specifications from the engineer in the structural notes.  Also, better check out IBC Chapter 17 on Special Inspections and what the inspectors are to be looking at which will normally be one of the specified applicable codes at the beginning of the Structural Notes.  IBC will take you to Chapter N of AISC for most structural steel but will give other guidance for Sheet Steel and Rebar.  Always take note of your Contract Documents. 

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 12-12-2016 14:51
Oh, for the record, Yes, welders qualified with 7018, an F4 electrode, would also be qualified with 6010, 6011, 6022, etc in the F3 class of electrodes.

Not that all of them are skilled enough to put down good quality welds with those electrodes.  There are differences but they are supposed to be grouped according to difficulty of use as one of the factors and 7018 has been determined by those from days past as being the more difficult electrode to use.

Parent - - By supermoto (***) Date 12-12-2016 15:04
Ahhhh, yes I see the qualifications for these types of joints in D1.3.  Also I found the technical terms for these Puddle welds are called arc spot or arc seam joints.

Looks like a qualification for sheet to structural and can even do a double sheet to structural.  It also looks like in the 3.0 scope applies to sheet to sheet or sheet to structural of equal to or less than 3/16".  If this is the case and the D1.1 and D1.3 overlap, how does this work for qualification?  PQR?
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-12-2016 17:29
If the welder is welding steel decking to structural steel, D1.3 is appropriate.

I did have one project where the sheets were punched with a 1/2 inch diameter hole and plug welded to the structural steel. The Engineer specified the welding to be per D1.1 and the welds had to be made using E7018 in the vertical position. the sheets were on the order of 16 gage, double thickness. Yup, they were galvanized to boot.

Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-12-2016 20:28
I hope they were able to get all of that clamped up tight or they would make a mess of that with puddles...people have a tough time with double thickness in the flat position, I can only imagine what you ended up seeing.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-12-2016 20:35
Actually, the job went pretty smooth. It was a "Tornado Wall", i.e., the siding on the turbine building of a nuclear powerhouse. I don't recollect any problems other than the backbreaking work of hoisting the sheets into place. While it was galvanized sheet, it was not hot dip galvanize, so it didn't create a problem. The holes were punched, so there was no galvanize in the holes to contend with.  I think I welded on that job for a little over a year back in the mid 70's.

Parent - - By supermoto (***) Date 12-12-2016 21:03
So even if the structural steel member is thicker than 3/16", D1.3 is going to be an acceptable for WPS and WPQR for that individual?
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-12-2016 21:20
To the best of my knowledge, yes.

Parent - By supermoto (***) Date 12-12-2016 21:25
Ok, thanks.

This is where it gets confusing to me, when codes overlap.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 12-12-2016 21:25
I believe you are correct.

1.1 ...."When used in conjunction with AWS D1.1, conformance
with the applicable provisions of Annex A of AWS D1.3
shall apply (see also Table 1.1). Two weld types unique
to sheet steel, arc spot, and arc seam are included in this

1.5.4 Arc Spot Welds. This type of weld is a spot weld
made by an arc welding process in which the weld is
made without preparing a hole in either member. These
welds are restricted to the welding of sheet steel to supporting
structural member
in the flat position (see Table
1.1). NOTE: Neither the thickness of a single sheet nor
the combined thickness of two sheets welded to the
thicker supporting structural members shall exceed
0.15 in [3.7 mm}.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / "puddle weld" qualification?

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