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monday in heading out on a new job site to weld column splices. (im a union ironworker). The column flanges are roughly 5/8 thinkness, with about a 1/4 to 3/8 root opening with a back up bar. Will be using an LN 25 and 5/64 NR 212. Ive ran alot of innershield wire on diagonal tube braces and a ton of 3M wire on welding moments. but ive never welded a column splice. Any hot tips you may have would be highly appreciated
Thanks,
Almost nobody uses I beams in structural work anymore. It should be a W shape and probably A992 but maybe A572-50. Most are dual qualified so can be both grades.
That is not to say the I beams don't exist, but they are not used for structural work in most applications.
He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent
All structural buildings are either beam and columns(I shape) or concrete with rebar.
Your wrong dude.....Columns and beams as your calling them are all Wide Flanges (WF) ...... I beams as your referring to are used for Crane Bridges and ???? If I'm wrong I've been sending a lot of the wrong product out the last 35+ years......Although I do have a question what exactly do they use S shapes for ??????( other than crane bridges)........ Bret , Lawrence or one of the other guru's on here know........:):):)
beams, columns, WFs ok. we are all talking about the same thing.
This is so off topic :)
But Brent is getting warm...
Many design engineers have moved toward built-up beams for both columns and rafters. The reason is for lightness. A built-up beam may be designed with thickness transitions in both webs and flanges as well as angular transitions. These transitions can accomplish strength gains over HR I beams for the same weight in steel.
Steel is expensive, and the notion is that the steel saved, due to the transitions for lightness is greater than the cost of the splices being placed during manufacturing.
That being said, we still produce I/H beams in the hundreds of tons.... But much more in Built-up.
In Europe they still use more I/H beam structure. Their notion is one of "Standardization" if fabrication. So rather than spending effort to produce lightness and cost savings from it, they have more standardized shapes and end connections that can be manufactured with the assistance of automation. Both notions have their virtues, and my opinion is that an amalgamation of both transitions and standardization/automation is most beneficial.
Structural shape designated as I beams or S beams have tapered flanges like a channel.
Looking at the front of the AISC Construction Manual will help in identifying all the various 'beam' shapes. As John noted, 'I' and 'S' have sloped flanges, which means when bolting they need the tapered washers. The angle is set in ASTM for the degree of slope.
What has been called 'H', Wide Flange, and other designations is now identified as W shapes. They can be either a beam or a column. All depends on if they are vertical or horizontal and exact function. Some will break down further into girders and beams. You can usually tell the major columns by the web and flange thickness.
But, what everyone used to call 'I'beams are actually W shapes and true 'I' beams are seldom used in structural work.
Some of these names are just what people who didn't really now have called them for generations and many of us grew up learning the same names partly because we didn't have the internet and so many other methods of learning otherwise. Others have actually changed as part of an evolving system to make member identification easier and more accurate.
As with so many other things, understanding what a person 'means' when they say 'I' beam is a good idea because the term still gets used a lot. However, all of us need to try and stay on top of proper terminology especially when we only use a particular term because we never knew better. But we will never get rid of 'Heli Arc', 'ground', and so many others. We can still try.
Brent
Built ups do get a fair amount of attention and probably a growing amount.
But, I have seen very few in production for work on the West Coast states. Buildings from single story through the 76 floor Wilshire Grand Hotel in LA, CA. If they weren't hot rolled W shapes they were composite steel box columns filled with and coated with concrete.
You start dealing with 14 X 700whatever W shapes, you know it is for a column. Flanges on some over 5" thick. And that will be the bottom of one massive structure.
Built ups, around here, get more use in commercial buildings like the shops we work in.
Brent
The Pre-engineered Metal Building shops make a lot of their own shapes out of plate. I have inspected a bunch of these buildings when I changed employers and spend my day out in the field.
Now that we have totally hijacked your query in this thread, what kind of splices are you actually referring to? Beam to Column as in a moment connection? So, a single bevel with backing? Or, Column section to Column section for additional height? Still usually as it would be in the horizontal it would be single bevel with backing?
Remember, Columns are vertical.
Brent
Column to column , multi story. Single bevel
I just inspected some of those without a backing bar, these were back gouged.
Interesting. And the flanges of the columns are only 5/8" thick. Seems pretty light.
What does your WPS say? I presume all the welders are qualified for horizontal.
Flanges that thin, not a lot you can do to speed things up. Just use your best skills to run good passes. I would recommend a wire wheel on 4 1/2" grinders to clean the slag. Don't try to fill too fast. Take your time.
Brent
Teach us more in this field. After reading on here, we can learn more in this topic.
Interesting.
It seems the Lincoln NR-212 is not classified yet by AWS A5.29. Based on a Lincoln web site it is classified as AWS A5.29/A5.29M, 2005 and ASME SFA-A5.29 as E71TG-G.
I believe that would require the contractor to qualify the WPS using that specific electrode, i.e. Lincoln NR-212. Electrodes grouped as "G" have not been approved by the AWS, thus are not prequalified as of the current edition of the Farm Code. As such, the WPS must be qualified by testing in accordance with Clause 4 and the contractor would be limited to that specific "brand."
Just because the electrode has not yet been classified by AWS does not mean it isn't a good product, it just means it is not prequalified.
So, I'm not the only one in favor of using standard terminology in our communications? It does make our communications more efficient.
Best regards - Al
How about I just take a picture on Monday so no matter what I call it and no mater what the book calls it we are all on the same page.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Al
By Lawrence 
Date 05-06-2017 21:59
Edited 05-06-2017 22:03
I read the same thing Al, regarding the electrode wire that TS mentioned. NR212
The prequalification prohibition is specifically on "GS" designations. Everything else is "E7XT-X" or something very close... Don't have my book at the moment.
They way I read it... "GS" is the only designation that does not have prequalified status... The "G" alone is not prohibited in the text.
But if the I beam has 5/8" thick flanges... does the "K" area exceed the 3/4" Max designated by Lincoln for NR212 ???
Our friend the poster has prolly made his weld days ago....... I suspect the weld and the building will work good and last a long time despite our endless ramblings about minute details that the people preparing the WPS should be thinking about rather than the welder :)
Been so long since I did any work with an NR212 or others in that class that I didn't even think about that and I didn't check out the Lincoln data on it.
Good points Al. Every little detail is important. Now my question about their WPS is even more important as it probably needs to be supported by a PQR.
As the OP is only a union dispatched welder, he probably won't know what is behind the WPS and may never see it. Regardless of how they are intended to give guidance to the welders, we all know how that goes.
The Erector could easily have all the required documentation. The OP was only asking questions in order to get a leg up on how to handle the job.
He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent
Not to be argumentative, but doesn’t the letter G in the usability position indicate the electrode has not been classified by the AWS Filler Metal Committee? If that is the case, how can it be a prequalified?
However, I concede the Farm Code only prohibits -GS if one is still using FCAW electrodes that comply with A5.20 and A5.29. However, per Table 3.2 under the heading A5.36, it appears that the -G and -GS are not considered prequalified since the -G or -GS are not included in the list of prequalified FCAW electrodes.
That being said, we are talking about the Farm Code and its mysteries.
"WPS? I don't need no stinking WPS!"
I would be pleasantly surprised to see a WPS on the job site. Whether it was correct, well, that is another problem for another day.
I reviewed A36 this morning with my coffee.
"G" is described as: "As agreed between customer and purchaser" Typical positions of welding and Polarity are not addressed in A36 for "G" type electrodes... Meaning one box of "G" electrodes could be DCEP and vertical-up and another box of G electrodes could be DCEN and vertical down,,,,, and only the box that the electrode came in would distinguish the difference.
I see no way a "G" type FCAW electrode could be used in a prequalified WPS for D1.1 no matter what the Big Red Book says about "GS" electrodes.
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