What type of welding symbol (s) to use

By injones79 Date 09-25-2017 11:48

I am fairly new to the CAD industry and one of the things that I have been asked to do is put weld symbols on drawings which is something fairly new for the company I work for. I'm not a welder and so I will go out to the shop and ask actual welders questions often about what types of welds they will put on this part and that part and so on. However, even the skilled welders with years of experience often don't have the objective answer I'm looking for because they just really never used or paid attention to the symbols during their time in the trade.

My question has to do with the application of the weld all around portion of a weld symbol. I'll use an example involving structural members because that is what I commonly come across. I understand that "all around" means that the weld should travel all around the joint that connects two members together and that this even applies as the weld bead changes directions. If you could picture the end of a square tube joined to the face of another square tube. I suppose you would call this a closed corner joint applied to the tubing. In this scenario you could use a flare bevel weld on two sides, a fillet weld on the inside corner, and a bevel weld on the outside corner. How should I designate this type of weld with weld symbols? I see some guys just use one weld symbol with the all around designation and then put it as a fillet weld but it's not just a fillet weld. Yes, it's welded all around, but there are actually two other weld types--flare bevel and bevel. Do I separate the designation of this weld with two separate weld symbols which would correctly signify the type of weld or do I just put one weld type like the fillet, add the all around symbol and call it good? If use the former method I save congesting the drawing with a significant amount of weld symbols while the latter seems more appropriate but will riddle the drawing with many more weld symbols. Does anybody know the correct way according to the rules?

By Tyrone

Date 09-25-2017 12:46

Injones,
Welcome to the AWS Forum!

It's good to see new people coming to this forum.
I'm having problems picturing what you describe as square tube to tube joint (closed corner joint?).

Get yourself a copy of AWS A2.4 Standard Symbols for Welding, Brazing and Nondestructive Examination. Familiarize yourself with the weld symbols and terminology.

It's good that you are going onto the shop floor to ask questions. You learn a lot that way.
You are putting on weld symbols which speaks to the minimum strength requirement of the weld joint to carry the load. Does the Design Engineer review your drawings before release?

Tyrone

By Steelslinger (**)

Date 09-25-2017 18:49 Edited 09-25-2017 18:52

If the Tubes are matched in size (Ex. 4 x 4 x 1/4 to another 4 x 4 x 1/4) you would have two Inside Corner/T-Joint Fillets and two Butt Joint Flare Bevel PJPs. You would not be able to use the 'All Around' symbol, as it is not a single type of weld. You would have to call out each type of weld joint, perhaps adding 'TYP' in the tail so you would not have to mark each face of the tube.

If they are unmatched in size (4 x 4 x 1/4 end to the side wall of a 6 x 6 x 1/4), then you would have a 'All Around' Fillet.

We create a print wide Detail Drawing of the joint with weld symbols, then mark it as typical for this type of connection. That helps cutting down on muddying up the print with weld symbols.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 09-26-2017 15:38

Injones,

WELDCOME TO THE AWS WELDING FORUM, The Greatest Welding Forum In The World, Bar None.

An interesting and very applicable query to start off your relationship here.

Now, part of your answer will also be dependent upon your applicable code. It appears from your materials and examples that D1.1 is at play here??

When you combine the requirements of D1.1 with the specifics of A2.4 Welding Symbols, you will find that the previous post of Steelslinger is very good.

A smaller size HSS to HSS CAN be called as an all around fillet weld, IF, it is needed and/or required for said fillet weld to wrap the corners. Most of the time it is not when it comes to structural steel.

Size on Size HSS will have two fillets and two PJP Flare Bevel Groove welds. Thus, the welder must be qualified for CJP's not just fillets and you have another issue with the corners.

As previously mentioned, the corners are generally not required to be welded. Just as going around the corner on a stiffener plate or other applications, this area is generally left unwelded. There are a couple of reasons: many shops use an electrode that is not qualified out of position and this weld will be out of position unless the part is stood up on end. Seldom done in the shop. Most shop welders are not qualified for out of position even if the electrode is. Next is the idea that you have 4 separate welds called. Especially with code allowed holdbacks and other code issues, the four welds need not connect and in many cases are better off not connecting.

One time when it will be welded is for sealing for some paints and/or galvanizing.

Read carefully your application of the code and A2.4 when it comes to calling out the flare bevel groove welds. Weld size is very important especially on larger members where it is quite possible the weld does not need to be of a size that would bring it all the way out to flush condition which will be required if you don't give them a weld size.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent