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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Single bevel groove welded from both sides
- - By Matt F (*) Date 03-20-2018 17:04 Edited 03-20-2018 17:11
I know my answer to this question but I'm seeking confirmation.  Using D1.1 prequalified joint configurations only:

A single bevel groove weld is specified.  No backing used, but backgouging is required.  Can the fabricator weld it from the other side first (either as a reinforcing fillet weld or by creating a small bevel), then backgouge and weld from the primary side?
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 03-20-2018 19:47
Yes,

Here are a couple of examples of how you can work the order of operations into the WPS weld sketch.

A backing weld is backing.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 03-20-2018 19:53
Yes,

Here are a couple of examples of how you can work the order of operations into the WPS weld sketch.
Parent - - By Matt F (*) Date 03-20-2018 20:07
Thanks for the reply!
So you're saying that the weld symbol can be tiered to be read in the correct order of operations, top to bottom?

For my examples, they would be switched, right?
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 03-20-2018 20:55
Look to AWS A2.4 for guidance.

Especially Clause 6.7.1 Sequence of Operations.

The details nearest the reference line go first.   So in the sketches I attached the backing welds are nearest the reference line.  The 5/16" fillet in the T-joint and the backing weld in the groove (other side).  Followed by backgouge and weld on the (arrow side).

But don't take my word for it...   Consult A2.4  :)
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 03-21-2018 19:25
LIKE   LIKE    LIKE

Doggone thing isn't working.
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 03-24-2018 01:51
If you gouge the beveled side of the joint after applying the backing weld, what controls are in place to assure a suitable (prequalified) joint detail?

Just a little something to think about.

The concepts about the welding symbols are great, however, the way its "Detailed" has no bearing on it being prequalified. Some space could be saved by just saying "Back Weld" or "Backing Weld" in the tail can straighten some things out with much less real estate used up.

I'm not sure if there are any notes or references in the code or not but in "practical" sense, if a single bevel joint is fitup and tacked of a certain configuration and then its "altered" before welding and were all about accurate documentation representing what was done, did the joint really match the "detail".
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 03-24-2018 16:14 Edited 03-24-2018 16:28
Gerald

I think you are over thinking it.

The prequalified details for CJPs don't present an order of operation... That is something that can be provided above and beyond the code.

How do you ever know the joint is suitable..?!?!?!?. The welder can grind a bevel, they can gouge a bevel, they can flame or plasma cut a bevel... Or somebody can hand them a bevel...  Managing quality is up to the fabricator in every scenario.

Both the TC-8a GG J-groove and the TC-U4b GF have Bevel-groove have a 45 degree groove angle... One can be gouged and one can be sawed, flame, plasma, grinder..  See what I'm saying ?  Make A WPS joint detail that matches the work to be done. 

If you have an operation that requires a backing fillet on a CJP corner joint or a CJP T-Joint and then gouge from the other side to sound metal...  Well,,, You train your certified staff to accomplish the task.
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 03-24-2018 19:33
I would not have a problem with it myself provided a good groove was provided but in the context of all of our "rocket science" type inspections, it sure does leave some things "open". With a matching WPS, all is good.

On the "thinking" side of it,  A guy could reject a weld prep for being one degree over or under the tolerance but the "good" prep made it past the ever vigilant inspector only to have a backgouge done thats way to narrow for its depth.

Codes in and of themselves are pretty poor quality systems. And even those are seldom complied with in quite a few cases.

Sometimes my brain just leaks out stuff when I read something on a forum.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 03-25-2018 16:44
Yes, to paraphrase a saying, the devil is in the detail tolerances.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Single bevel groove welded from both sides

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