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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / AWS D1.1 (Clause 9- Tubular Structures)
- - By JON_THEcwi Date 04-25-2018 19:32
OK, this is driving me insane.. Lets say I need a 6" Schedule 40 Groove Weld, welded from one side, with no backing/back gouging.
Clause (9) Mentions in multiple locations that you shall qualify the WPS using Figure 9.23(a), which has a welding symbol showing a Single V groove, with a 1/8" Max root face. The only "Optional" thing the figure says is the "Groove Angle" shall be what is used in production... Not the "Joint Detail" . On Table 9.10 footnote "B" says "For square groove welds that are qualified without back gouging, the maximum thickness qualified shall be limited to the plate thickness. Point being, that says to me that they allow a different "Joint Detail" to be used without backing....even though they say you "SHALL" use  figure 9.23(a). My question is, should that note say "Joint Detail shall be the same used in construction"?????? HELPPPPPPPP
Parent - - By Steelslinger (**) Date 04-26-2018 20:46 Edited 04-26-2018 20:49
I am having trouble following your issue.

You are looking to qualify a WPS for Groove Weld on 6" Sched 40 without backing or backgouging?
What groove are you wanting to use/qualify?

What is being outlined in Clause 9 is:

You perform a groove joint test using figure 9.23(a) using your 6" Sched 40 pipe.
You set the groove angle to whatever degree you will use in production
The Root Face can be no greater than 1/8"
The Root Opening cannot exceed 1/8"

You perform 4 side bend tests and 2 Reduced Section Tensile tests.

All Table 9.10 note b states is that if you are using a Square Groove without backing/backgouging, your limit, upon qualification, is the Tested material's thickness. Square grooves are very limited in ranges accepted.
Parent - - By JON_THEcwi Date 05-04-2018 19:28
I understand all of that.

but when i see the word SHALL, and Figure 9.23, and its a "Single V-Groove" with a note ONLY about Groove Angle, that says to me that if you want to weld an open butt no backing weld, you can only use that joint detail.

What makes me wonder is that they discuss a square groove open butt/ no backing under that table, so then it makes me think they do allow different joints. I need a single bevel joint, not the single v they say you SHALL use. and being thats an essential variable if changed, it makes me wonder if your even allowed to weld any other joint detail besides a Single V for tubular structures.

I have read all through clause 9 and the commentary more than i can count. i want to see this in the code black and white, and not an opinion, and it seems not to exist.

Know you can get around this if you do a PQR on plate if your welding on 24" Pipe Minimum, but it still doesn't help my question.
Parent - - By Steelslinger (**) Date 05-07-2018 13:52
Yes, you would use that Figure to qualify your procedure. Once you qualify, you would be able to use the joint details in Clause 2 that matched your limitations from your PQR.
Parent - By JON_THEcwi Date 06-13-2018 14:53
Thanks Steelslinger,
I wanted to make sure I'm not missing something. But basically they are saying if you choose to weld from one side, it must be a Single V, or nothing at all, seeing as a Joint detail is an essential variable.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / AWS D1.1 (Clause 9- Tubular Structures)

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