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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / CWI
- - By SWN1158 (***) Date 07-10-2018 21:03 Edited 07-10-2018 23:09
A CWI is giving vertical limited thickness tests that are to be backgouged on the other side. He's allowing the welders to remove the test after welding the first side. The welder is then flipping the test over to expose the unwelded side and clamping the test to the bucks (in the flat position), backgouging it out of position, then placing it back in the vertical position, and welding the backgouged side. He's telling me that the code allows it. This is something I've never heard before. Is this practice acceptable in D1.1? I then asked him if this was an actual field condition, the welder wouldn't be able to take the joint out of position, backgouge it, and then put it back into position and finish welding it. My question to him then was, how is the weld test preparing the welder to make a good and proper weld if he actually has to weld and gouge it in the vertical position? I thought that's what the test was for.... to simulate a possible shop or field condition, and to ceritfy that the welder has the ability to weld it.

Also, it's always been my understanding that a weld test has to pass visual inspection before going any further with testing. I've always thought that on a groove weld test, the test joint must be filled in all the way across the joint. The CWI is telling me that the code allows 1/2" on each end to be unfilled. So, how can this justify the joint passing the visual?

Another thing is that I told him I was qualified to certify welders based on my experience (unless the EOR chooses to specify the basis for inspector qualifications), and that if this is the case, it must be in the job specs. He didn't want to hear this. He said that this must be engineer approved.

He basically told me that when I take the test and become a CWI, then we can have these conversations.

I want to do everything correctly, and if I'm doing something wrong, please let me know.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-10-2018 23:23 Edited 07-10-2018 23:34
Hi Scott!

1.  AWS D1.1 has no provision for performance qualification testing with back gouge.

2.   The full length of the coupon, less run-tabs shall be visually inspected.  There is an official interpretation on this point, but I’m sitting by the pool at the moment.

3.  If this is a 3rd party CWI your company is using to test YOUR welders, than your quality manual should have the step by step testing provisions published for him to obey.   If he is representing a customer it’s a different matter.

If you want your welders tested in a specific manner, this should be in the 3rd party inspector’s contract.

D1 performance Tests with steel backing qualify Johnny to do CJP’s that are back gouged in production, but not visa versa.

We performance test with backing, train to gouge separately, and do a ton of volumetric testing (UT) to validate weld quality.

You have a lot going on.  Keep us posted on your progress with this Titan of a CWI.

Edit:  If I were doing a supplementary performance test to qualify 3G vertical, I would certainly stipulate that any gouging, grinding or touch-up were done in position and in the test fixture.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-11-2018 11:30 Edited 07-11-2018 11:45
Here is the official interpretation on visual inspection of test coupons Scott.

To speak to your question about CWI's and who may be authorized to (visually) inspect welds and weldments here is what D1.1 says in the 2015 revision:

"6.1.4 Inspector Qualification Requirements Basis for Qualification. Inspectors responsible
for acceptance or rejection of material and
workmanship shall be qualified. The bases of Inspector
qualification shall be documented. If the Engineer elects
to specify the bases of inspector qualification, it shall be
so specified in contract documents.
The acceptable qualification basis shall be the following:
(1) Current or previous certification as an AWS Certified
Welding Inspector (CWI) in conformance with the
provisions of AWS QC1, Standard for AWS Certification
of Welding Inspectors, or
(2) Current or previous qualification by the Canadian
Welding Bureau (CWB) in conformance with the requirements
of the Canadian Standard Association (CSA)
Standard W178.2, Certification of Welding Inspectors, or
(3) An individual who, by training or experience, or
both, in metals fabrication, inspection and testing, is
competent to perform inspection of the work."
Parent - - By SWN1158 (***) Date 07-11-2018 18:57
Thank you Lawrence. I did a search for an official interpretation but I didn't see this one. Thank you !!!!
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-11-2018 19:28
Your Quality Manual is a great resource too. Your QC manual should spell out the min. qualifications required to carry out the testing of welding personnel. It should also spell out the steps necessary to carry out the testing and the acceptance/rejection criteria to be imposed upon the finished welding coupon.
Parent - By SWN1158 (***) Date 07-11-2018 21:01
I need to look into that. Thanks John!
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-11-2018 22:04
Good Day Scott,

Interesting.  I thought I had just read somewhere about leaving the test coupon in place during the whole test.  Can't find it at the moment. 

As to your other comment, Lawrence answered it well.  You don't have to be a CWI to qualify welders, write WPS's, nor inspect welds. 

Arrogance is not a good look on an inspector. 

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / CWI

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