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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Virtual Welding Programs
- - By yojimbo (***) Date 10-16-2018 17:06
I was just introduced to a Lincoln Virtual Welding Program wherein the operator put on a welding hood connected to a set of welding parameters and produced a "virtual" weld which could be evaluated for various acceptance criteria.  I thought it was the most absurd waste of $20,000.00 USD for a toy I might have ever seen.  It was my first experience with "Virtual Reality".  Where were the sparks burning my skin?  I asked if there had been any properly controlled studies to evaluate the programs ability to improve learning curve and was told "Yes, Lincoln has some literature".  I guffawed.  Fortunately the person showing me this apparatus is not only a very smart guy, skilled welder, CWI, and welding instructor he's also a great friend who understands the underlying absurdity so he took no offense.  Any experience/opinions on this development in our craft?
Parent - By Tyrone (***) Date 10-16-2018 18:30
My sister company uses VR to train newbie welders.  The savings come from reduction in materials (test plates and bend coupons) and training hours.  They have to prove they are ready to weld by demonstrating virtually first.  Then they get real plates and equipment, complete with smoke and burns.
I cannot verify the $ and Hrs saved.  I first thought the same as you, this VR stuff is BS.  Need to load up the other senses with smell and sound to make it realistic. I haven't tried one in 15 yrs.  They gotta be better now a days.

Tyrone
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 10-16-2018 19:27
It's been a long time since I actually tried one, but I don't have a favorable opinion of the virtual reality weld training systems.
Lincoln came out with their virtual system a long time ago, and have been improving it and developing a lot of data to back it up.
I think it's best suited for school kids, to help get them interested in learning to actually weld.

However, a couple years ago, Lincoln bought the system developed by EWI called "Real Weld". This is a training system that uses a live arc and is better suited, in my opinion, for actually teaching welding.
https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/company/newsroom/Pages/realweld-promo.aspx

Lincoln had to do this to keep up with Miller's "Live Arc" training system.
https://www.millerwelds.com/products/augmented-arc-livearc

I'm seriously considering the purchase of a Miller "Live Arc" system.

Tim
Parent - - By yojimbo (***) Date 10-18-2018 01:55
Gentleman,

Having acquired so much fun, pleasure, satisfaction and filthy lucre from the real world I have largely ignored and forsaken the promises of imagined and/or manipulated reality.  Regardless of it's ability to help our species continue to survive I truly think it is a contradiction in terms in that our dependence on it contributes to the decline in real world solutions and allows a growing misunderstanding that physical reality is something to be somehow ignored or avoided and not embraced. 

Nothing in my imagination or living experience could replace the certainty of competence realized, watching, as a green first time helper, the accomplishments those two journey men, having arrived on deck, provided as a solution.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 10-18-2018 10:54
They need to develop a virtual electrode that will burn away to simulate a real E7018, as the newbie will no doubt long arc, as we all did, on the first successful strike of the arc that lasts long enough to deposit some of the filler across the arc to the base material.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 10-18-2018 15:49
...and an electrode that sticks itself the base material and flashes you as you forget to leave your shield down while trying to rip the electrode free from it's hold on the base material.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 10-18-2018 14:48
Filthy Lucure !!!!

That's what virtual welding is all about.

I have waxed loquatios many times on this forum on the subject.

Socrates said:  "“The beginning of wisdom is a definition of terms.”

True in the real world,  equally true in the virtual world... 

Possibly true behind the veil,  where the barrier between those two worlds is thin and mystery holds her golden scepter of authority, and surety disappears and blackens the sky like a flock of frightened birds.

Virtual welding units can shorten the learning curve for entry level training.   This has been proven by testing and evaluation by many respected experts and institutions.  So let's keep that at the front of our attention as we proceed.

However;  If you have 18 students in a cohort, how many $50,000 virtual units do you need for every student to benefit from this type of enhancement?    At leas 3 is the correct answer.  or  $150,000 capital investment before an arc is ever struck

The notion that there is some related savings in base metal, electrode, or shield gas is a sales gimick, from the snake-oil slathered sales folks who poffer these amazing virtual tools in lustful anticipation of the filty lucure that will fill their pockets at bonus time.

One Virtual Welding unit costs the same or more than the annual  base salary for many American high school shop teachers and probably 3x the annual salary for Tech College adjunct faculty.

An X-box has a much higher actual level of technology at like less than 1/50th the cost.

So who has actually been benefitting from Virtual welding...  Well recruiters who let kids play with them and maybe enrollment is enhanced,  maybe...   Who else?   insititutions that have unlimited tax dollars to buy $50K virtual units...  Prisons and DOD

for $50K you can buy 5 CC power supplies,,,  5 CV power supplies,,,  and have another $20K left over, available for practice steel and shield gas.....   All that for the cost of one virtual welder.

If Grant money is available for Virtual Technology and that grant money can't be spent on Faculty, Steel, or Real welding machines?   Well heck yes... Spend the Capital and get the Fancy Virtual units...

But keep your eyes wide open when you are considering program budget capital and what it actually will do to enhance student learning and the local businesses in your region that will hire students.

Thus endeth the lesson.
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-18-2018 15:17
Well said!!

jrw159
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 10-18-2018 17:04
AMEN!!
Parent - - By yojimbo (***) Date 10-18-2018 17:31
I believe Lawrence has exposed the devil to the details.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 10-18-2018 19:12
I've used about a half a dozen different Virtual and Virtual/Hot welding platforms..

All of them are EXCELLENT teaching/learning tools...   I really do like them.

I just think it's important to understand the cost of accelerating the learning curve by using them.

Please don't take my skepticisim and flowery words for hate.

If they were $5K   I would advocate every school have five of them :)
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Virtual Welding Programs

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