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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / sa200 f163 carb flooding...
- - By Mike... (*) Date 03-04-2019 01:06 Edited 03-04-2019 15:20
Good evening...just joined this forum hoping for some expertise to help me with my sa200...

Here's what happened...

i hadn't started or used the machine in about six months and i have a project to work on so i started the machine and tried to weld and it didn't weld, but it did run.  So i cleaned both commutators and it started welding great, so I turned off the fuel valve and let it run out of gas ...a couple days later, i decided to change the oil and the spark plugs, it had UD16 spark plugs in it and i replaced them with D16 and since then it won't run like it's supposed to because it's flooding too bad. i've taken the carb off several times thinking i've missed something, which is still very possible, but everything looks good. It has a good blue spark from the magneto.  And it has plenty of air.  i took the valve cover off and none of the valves are stuck. And i put the old spark plugs back in...No change occurred!...
Every now and then i can get it to run at a low speed, but it won't idle up all the way and when it does run i don't let it run long because it starts getting hot. And to get it to run, i have to hold the choke pulled out about 1/3 of the way out and the throttle wide open. A few times while running like this it actually acted like it kicked in and was fixin to take off and run right but it didn’t...
I did put a carb kit in it about a year and a half ago.  i'm wondering if the carb has just too much wear?...
Or maybe i'm just way off here and missing something simple...overthinking, i do often!  :)
Thank you all for the help in advance!...
Pax et bonum...
Parent - - By psnort (*) Date 03-04-2019 22:18
If it needs the choke partially on to run it's not likely flooding. Sounds like it is starving for fuel. and running too lean will also cause it to heat up. I don't know why you ran it out of gas, but this will often disturb the collected crud in the fuel system. If it were me, I would clean the glass bowl fuel filter and then drain the carburetor and check to see that there is plenty of fuel flowing to the carb. There may be crud in the carb, just tear it down and clean/blow out all the various orifices and reassemble. If it is in fact flooding, check for stuck float needle and/or sunken float (gasoline in the float chambers - may have to re-solder). Some of the early 70s models had problems with sticky float needle. In my experience, rebuilding often does not fix this. Make sure the float operates freely.
Parent - - By Mike... (*) Date 03-05-2019 18:18
Thank you for responding psnort!...
I agree, if the choke needs to be pulled out it means it runnng lean...but when I dropped the carb, one of the times, the intake was pretty wet and the plugs are black...
This evening when I get off work I will pull the carb and  check to see if the float sticking...and I’ll open it up and check for any trash too...and I’ll submerge the float and see if it’s leaking...
I’ve already cleaned the bowl and installed an in-line fuel filter so I should be good there....
I’ll lett you know how it turns out!...
Thanks again!...
Parent - - By Paladin (***) Date 03-07-2019 02:48 Edited 03-07-2019 02:52
I would agree with psnort that some trash may be clogging the fuel delivery after running it dry.
Fresh fuel?
What makes you think it is getting hot? Sounds like it is not running long enough to get hot.

You may have some fuel issue; carb leaking, clogged jets, etc.
Oil filled air filter have correct amount of oil? Any restrictions there?

That said, back in the day when I had a 1971 SA200, EVERY time it would not run was a magneto problem.
The magneto would make a spark making you think it was good.  I would take the carb off time and time again, cleaning, rebuilding, checking float.
Nope, was not it.

Best thing I ever did to that fine old SA was install  Pertronix electronic ignition.
I could rain 40 days and 40 nights and it would fire right off every morning. No more drying the distributor cap or buying another mag.

Floyd
Parent - - By Mike... (*) Date 03-08-2019 02:05
Update...
I took the carb back off and checked it all out, taking all the jets out and cleaning them with tip cleaners and blowing it out with carb cleaner(again) and I checked the float(it looked good)...put it back together and on the motor.  Then I tried to crank it and...it didn’t even hiccup!...so I checked spark...it had none!...so I took the magneto apart and I’ve ordered new parts...when the parts come in, I’ll see how the spark looks and then try to fire it up...I almost went the electronic distributor route, and if I used this machine to make a living I would’ve, but I decided to try to keep it old school...I’m just gonna use it around the house, so it won’t be affecting my job...and it was my Dad’s old machine that he worked for many years and I’d like to keep it the way he had it... :)  I may have to resort to the Pertronix electric ignition, Mr. Floyd...and I’m not ruling it completely out..but I’m hoping not to have to...kinda depends on how things go after I put the new parts in...cause I’m not gonna by a new mag for it, I would put the electronic ignition on it before I did that...but it kinda seems like the same scenario you went through with your machine Mr. Floyd...taking the carb off numerous times and it ended up being the mag!...
I really appreciate your responses...I’ll let y’all know how it turns out...parts should be in by Monday, so hopefully after work Monday evening I can put it together...GOD willing!...
Oh...and it was getting hot because when it would run on choke it was runnng lower rpm’s than at normal idle speed and I think that hindered the fan and water pump from working as they should...that’s what I’m thinkin anyway...and I have the air breather off, so should be plenty of air...
Thank you again!...
Pax et bonum...
Mike...
Parent - - By Paladin (***) Date 03-08-2019 03:17
Mike,
I hope the new parts fix it.

I put an electronic ignition on my 1948 Ford 8N tractor too.
I starts right up every time. Every time if I don't forget to shut the fuel petcock off when stopped. It tends to flood with the fuel left on.
I never routinely closed the fuel off on my Lincoln. It never flooded.
In spite of a rebuild and float level check, the Ford likes to flood the carb when not running.

Good luck,
Floyd
Parent - - By Mike... (*) Date 03-08-2019 20:25
Hey Mr. Floyd,
I hope the new parts fix it too!... :)
Yea, out of habit I normally turn the fuel off on the welding machine...I guess mostly cause Dad always did...I guess he did that just so he’d know there’d be gas in the tank, and not in the oil pan or on the ground, in the morning when he went to work the next morning... :)
Actually I normally turn the fuel off of everything I have, that has a valve on it....I may not run it outta gas, unless I’m not planning on using it for a while, but I always turn the petcock valve off..
That’s amazing that your 8N floods when off even after a rebuild and float level check...
Pax et bonum...
Mike...
Parent - - By Mike... (*) Date 03-18-2019 19:28
Update...
Well, I got the magneto parts...replaced them and then tried it.  It did the same thing, but it had a great spark!...so I’ve ordered a carb rebuild kit, in case I’ve missed something like a bad spot on a jet or a mixture screw seat...I’m also gonna soak the carb overnight before I put the kit in...
Pax et bonum...
Parent - - By Mike... (*) Date 03-26-2019 22:46
Update...
Put carb kit in...
Checked spark...looks great!...
Still won’t run...
I’m gonna stop workin on it...when I have time, I’m gonna do a total rebuild of the engine...
Thank y’all for y’all help...
Parent - - By Mike... (*) Date 03-26-2019 22:46
Pax et bonum...
Parent - - By psnort (*) Date 03-28-2019 23:17
Mike,

If it has spark and gas, it ought to run. Even if it is weak. How is the compression? If it is OK double check the magneto setting. I have put them back in out of time several times. Easy to do. I have also gotten the plug wires out of order. If it is out of time that would give you the response that you describe, that is good spark, plenty gas and no bang. Just a suggestion.
Parent - - By Mike... (*) Date 03-29-2019 14:37
Hey Mr. Psnort...
Ok, I will recheck the magneto timing...I’ll pull it back off tomorrow...and yes Sir, the compression is good on all four cylinders...I may go ahead and pull off the timing chain cover and see how that looks...to see if the marks are all lined up and it didn’t maybe jump time...front seal is leaking so I’ll change it while I have it broke down that far...I really would rather not do the total, or maybe partial, rebuild now, it’d be great to get it running and use it for the project I need it for and then after  that take my time and go through it...
I’ll let you know how it turns out!...
Thank you for your reply back!...
Pax et bonum...
Parent - - By psnort (*) Date 03-29-2019 21:11
Mike,

Before you take much apart, here is a quick check method. Take out the #4 plug. Take the cap off the mag. Stick finger of left hand in the plug hole. With right hand grab fan and rotate engine (in the direction it runs) You will feel the compression stroke in #4. When pressure stops at the top of the stroke, rotor should be in position to deliver spark to the #4 wire. I seem to remember that's lower left quadrant as you face the rotor (better check that info - it's been awhile). If it is not in that position, take out the mag and rotate it to that position. When that's all set, check the firing order and see that the wires are in the right sockets at the mag and connected to the correct plug. I have gotten it wrong several times over the years, and it's always a pleasure when it roars into life.
Peter
Parent - By Mike... (*) Date 04-01-2019 19:32
Will do Mr. Peter!...
Thank you!...
Pax et bonum...
- By Mike... (*) Date 12-31-2019 17:45
Update!...
Sorry it took so long!
I just figured out my login!
Very frustrating for an old guy to have to keep up with all my user id’s and passwords!
So, machine runs! Thanks be to GOD! :)
Long story short, the spring in the mag was broke. It would still spark, but I was not at the right time, I’m assuming.
It’s still not starting very easy, so I’m still piddling my with it.
I’m gonna try to see where the timing is at, when I get it started.
Other than that I’m thinkin my idle fuel mixture screw is not set right. I put it at 1, 1 1/2, 2, 2 1/2, 3...etc. off seat and it appears it is either timing or fuel shortage, any suggestions?
Thank y’all for all yalls help!
I will check to see if anyone had a chance to reply!
Pax...
- - By Mike... (*) Date 12-31-2019 17:52
Forgot to say that when it has started I had the choke about a third pulled out and the throttle at idle position.
I plan on getting new plugs. Do y’all suggest the d-16 or the ud-16 plugs? It has the ud16 in it now.
Thanks again!
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-31-2019 18:17 Edited 12-31-2019 18:26
Sounds like a jet is partially stopped up if it will only run with the choke 1/3rd pulled out. Are you sure that it is flooding and not starving(lean)?

Edit: Do those Zeineth carbs have a pilot jet? In my experience, Small engines that only run with the choke on usually have the pilot jet stopped up with ethanol gas sitting in the carb for a while. I take a small diameter wire(old bread tie without the paper on it) and run through the opening until I can see through it and put it all back and it runs.

From google: The pilot jet is the part which supplies most of the fuel at low throttle openings. It has a small hole in it which restricts fuel flow though it. Both the pilot air screw and pilot jet affects carburetion from idle to around 1/4 throttle

https://www.rollingwrenchdenver.com/blogs/news/carburetor-help-jetting-and-tuning-help
Parent - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 12-31-2019 19:24
Mike,
sounds like you are heading in the right direction. I had a 1963 Red-face that I sold last year and used Weldmart.com to get parts I needed. I don't know where you are, but, if in Texas near Houston, Weldmart is close to Cleveland Texas off FM 105. Your era Lincoln is pretty much all they work on. They have a great selection of parts also.
http://www.weldmart.com/
281-432-0250
- - By Mike... (*) Date 01-04-2020 04:16
Update!
Thank you for your post and your help Mr. John and Mr. Jim.
I was finally able to work on the machine this evening. I had called B&W parts and spoke to Cody, I think that was his name, and he told me to adjust my float in the carb to 5/32 and to put the air/fuel idler screw to 1 1/2 turns out. I did that this evening and BAM! In about two rolls of the starter and it fired up! I tweeked on the idle speed and high engine speed and both are set pretty close to 1050,low idle, and 1550, high idle.
So now I’m just gonna piddle with getting it cleaned up and then I’ll start welding on some projects I have!
Thank all of you for your help!
It’s really great to be able to get on this site and know that with all the knowledge of all of y’all, and yalls willingness to help, there’s no doubt one will get pointed in the right direction to fix any problem!
Thank all of you again!
Pax et bonum.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 01-04-2020 11:11
Awesome news! :cool:
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / sa200 f163 carb flooding...

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