dissimilar metals - mild to stainless

By g17-jimmy Date 02-01-2005 03:45

BTW- I did search the board, but only found info on SS to cast iron and SS to galvanized. -j

By Mikeomni1 (*)

Date 02-02-2005 16:03

We need the type and grade of each material to help.

Regards,
Mike

By g17-jimmy Date 02-03-2005 03:40

Well the SS is 304, the non-SS is a aluminized steel flange(which answers another question on the thread). I found a couple places with SS flanges, but $45 for a flange??? I might just get a new tube made of aluminized steel.

fwiw- the exaust that was on the car was al-steel, and lasted 15 years, and would have lasted longer, but I wanted upgrade a little.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 02-03-2005 15:36

45 buckaroos for a flange, whoa. Take a few more minutes to fab one up, but it is only a 5/16"-3/8" thick piece of ss plate, fillet welded to the pipe, right?

Talking about al-steel....I've sprayed the welds on my aluminized(sp?) steel exhaust, with high temp aluminum paint and they held up for years without rusting. I missed a one small place on top of one joint that I didn't see while I had that rattle can moving and that rusted pretty quick.
John Wright

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 02-02-2005 16:52

How about bolting?... using the mild steel pipe welded to a mild steel flange then gasket in between bolted to ss flange welded to ss pipe. None of your welds would get dilluted if you go at it this way.
I figured you probably had a mild steel header and ss exhaust the rest of the way back?
Just a thought.
John Wright

By g17-jimmy Date 02-03-2005 03:49

see above for part of that.

You are right the header is mild steel, the presilencer is mild steel, the planned(not yet purchased) midpipe(over the axle) and muffler are 304 SS.

I really appreciate the info.
-j

By carbonwelder Date 02-02-2005 16:27

Your welding rod-wire can be either mild steel or stainless steel. The stainless steel beads would be less likely to rust. Also, it takes more heat to weld stainless than mild steel, therefore, balance your welding heat source more on the stainless side.

By g17-jimmy Date 02-03-2005 03:44

what type of wire would you use, I have read that 309L is the right wire, and my next question may sound really stupid but I'll ask it anyway:

Using the 309L wire is sheilding gas required?

if so, is pure CO2 ok?

Thanks for the info.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 02-03-2005 15:42

http://www.jwharris.com/welref/techguide/alloy_for_stain_steel/flux_cored/

with these FCAW wires you can use 100% CO2, see if any of this helps
John Wright

By harleyhitman (**)

Date 02-03-2005 21:27

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By MBSims

Date 02-04-2005 00:19

But does it have an AWS classification?

By harleyhitman (**)

Date 02-04-2005 01:40

yes it does !

http://www2.cronatronwelding.com/cronatron/main.nsf/html/Services~Certificates?opendocument

By MBSims

Date 02-04-2005 04:13

OK, tell us what it is. The link only shows a AWS logo, not the classification.

By harleyhitman (**)

Date 02-04-2005 05:13

The link say that we provide the AWS certification to "customers" and once you buy some you will fall into that category !

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 02-04-2005 07:51

Methinks he doth protest too much

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 02-04-2005 13:36

Lawrence,
I am leary of a wonder rod that does everything great in all circumstances. Something just doesn't set well with me trying to accept this concept. If you think about it, if this stuff will do anything and everything, why are the other manufacturers still bothering to produce their products? Seems like a waste if this stuff is the wonder material that it claims to be.
Just skeptical, that's all.
John Wright

By GRoberts (***)

Date 02-04-2005 15:51

I agree with Mr. Wright on this one. It sounds a lot like Inconel to me. I haven't see anyone with one of these "wonder rods" come up with anything new yet, just more expnsive and with a lot of market hype in order to get people sucked into buying "wonder rod" instead of NiCrMo-3, NiCrFe-2, or some other AWS classified material perfectly suitable for the application. If this really was a novel filler metal, it should be patented and marketed openly.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 02-04-2005 15:56

John,

It reminds me of various encounters with vendors of tungsten electrodes. They will say.. "Oh our electrodes are recognized by aws and classified in the AWS spec on electrodes as EWG". Well EWG classification simply has been a catch all for alloying combinations that are "other" than those specifically covered by another color code.. In essence a secret recipie which could be great or could be the sweepings from the foundry floor. It's like eating a meatloaf made by somebody other than your wife or mom eh?

Eutectic and others have some pretty amazing "wonder rods" but the good ones realize, understand and are willing to work with the fact that I'm not doing business with somebody that demands I buy the product before telling me what it can actually be used on for code work.

besides, I'm a little annoyed with the full page sales pitch every time a filler metal question arises.

By MBSims

Date 02-04-2005 18:11

I've been around welding for awhile and one thing I've learned is the "wonder rods" usually are some standard AWS classification (such as E312 or nickel alloys) that have some coloring added to the flux and perform no better than any other standard products that cost 1/3 of the price. These marketing schemes are oriented to folks that don't know much about welding products, but respond well to miracle claims, pocket knives and other purchasing incentives.

By supermechanic (**)

Date 02-05-2005 18:38

MODERATOR!
Can somebody do something about this 'cut-and-paste' sales pitch.

By g17-jimmy Date 02-07-2005 14:00

I'll give it a shot. thanks.

-j

By Mikeomni1 (*)

Date 02-04-2005 14:06

Commonly used electrodes for welding carbon to austenitic stainless steel are 309 and 316. Argon for shielding. And I don't think your 100 Amp welding machine would push Fluxcore stainless steel wire. Solid wire only.

Regards,
Mike

By SWP

Date 02-04-2005 15:14

Simply fusion welding austenitic stainless steel such as type 304 or 316 to a mild (low carbon) steel can result in a weld chemisty that is highly hardenable, resulting in a hard brittle weld zone and possibly cracking.

Generally, the weld chemistry resulting from the addition of type 309 or type 310 stainless steel to the weld pool results in a weld chemisty that will remain austenitic, and ductile.

For spray transfer GMAW of stainless steel, I have had good results with Argon-1% Oxygen and Argon-5%CO2. I suggest consulting your local welding gas distributer for the recommended gas for the short circuit GMAW process you are probably limited to with your weldpak 100. I believe a tri-mix of Argon-Helium with a small addition of Oxygen or CO2 is recommended. The Helium provide additional heat to the arc that may be helpful to achieving good fusion in short circuit transfer. The small addition of Oxygen or CO2 stabilizes the Argon arc, but is not enough to adversly oxidize the stainless steel. The pure Argon GMAW arc is very unstable. Much more than 5% CO2 in the mix will cause excessive oxidation of the stainless. A 1 or 2% Oxygen mix may be slightly perferrable because the CO2 will also add Carbon to the weld and increase chances of shifting the chemisty to a more hardenable mix.

I would remove the "aluminized" coating from the weld joint area. I don't think this could do any good for your welding success.

By g17-jimmy Date 02-10-2005 17:57

I have changed my plan to not include the SS portion of the exhaust. But thanks for all of the replies, eventually the info will be useful, just not on this project.

I have started putting the exhaust together though. there are new pics in the exhaust section of my website:

http://www.caldwellphoto.com/jimmy/index.html

The welds aren't the greatest, the welds at the "y" are terrible , but I was satisfied with the weld at the first muffler.

-j