S.E.N.S.E. vs. Accredited Test Facility

Date 02-22-2005 15:05

Lucid-
You didn't fill out your profile, so I find it hard to answer your question. I don't know what type of work you want to do- structural, boilers, pipefitting. Some projects require you to be tested and certified for the job. Some areas require you to be tested and certified to their local standards. If you're in L.A. and want to weld structural, you need the L.A. card, if your in Seattle, you need the W.A.B.O. card
Roger

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 02-23-2005 22:12

Welcome to the forum,
I have been watching to see the replies to your question. I'm curious too about some of the certifications that are available for welders to take along with them and are recognized and accepted across the country.

I for one will test ALL welding applicants for production welding positions in our shop, regardless of the certifications they present during the interview. Anyone who is qualified/certified in our shop is welcomed to take those papers with them when they leave, but most places will retest these same people again before placing them into a production welding position.

I said all that to say this, many places will test you to the codes, materials, positions, thicknesses, and several other essentials that are relevant to the type work being performed in that shop.

You may or may not be wasting your money on certifications, it just depends on where and what you are trying to do. Remember, most codes have requirements that make the welder prove thier continuity hasn't lapsed for a six month period. In other words if you are between welding jobs and more than 6 months have past and you can't prove that you have been welding according to your certifications in the meantime, they are no longer any good.

I'm all for education and more of it can make you a better welder, so I'm not trying to discourage you in any way from furthering your welding education and some employers will be more receptive to giving you a shot at an interview if they see that you have been through some classes of a, formal type, welding education. But just "carrying papers" don't mean that you won't get tested again and again.

just a few thoughts to consider,
John Wright

By Lucid Date 02-24-2005 00:18

I've never welded in my life.

But I will. Welders are employed in many industries and many jobs depend on welding.

So there's not a national standard like there is for electrical work (ie,...National Electrical Code)? (and is that a mandatory code?)

I take it welding is more of an art than electrical work is. And if your location (ie,...W.A.B.O.) and employer greatly affects what you need to be able to do, then I'd rather just get a very comprehensive welding education and go from there.

I don't yet know where I wanna weld (maybe arctic AK), for whom I wanna weld for, or what kinda welding I wanna do. For now I just wanna have knowledge and talent.

So how can one recognize the difference in quality at the various schools. Because lets face it...Computer Science at UW may be a little different than Computer Science at MIT.

There ASME, AWS, Military, W.A.B.O., etc... but where does the jack of all trades come in. I'm talkin just about education (and quality of).

Horbart's and Lincoln may be nationally renown, but why spend all that money why it may not be neccesary.

thanks for the replies
jay

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 02-24-2005 02:02

Hi jay,
I guess the first thing is to get some arc time under your belt. Once you get your feet wet with this welding business, you will quickly see how broad a question you were asking regarding the types of certs you may need to aquire. This is an ever expanding field and there are so many types of welders, *processes*(an ever expanding subject all by itself), and types of welding jobs available to choose from. As far as codes go, there are several governing codes that cover wide spectrum of welding. AWS D1.1 is Structural Welding Code - Steel, primarily deals with welded structural steel framed building skeletons, then there many other codes developed by the AWS to govern other types of welding ie Aluminum, Stainless Steel, Rebar, ect.... ASME has developed a whole string of codes to govern pressure vessels/boilers and other types of piping and such. API has developed codes to govern pipes carrying petroleum products. There are just so many, and I don't know enough about them all to even know how to explain it to you. I left out so many fields like Aerospace and Nuclear and other industries with specific codes to regulate the welding within them. I'm afraid that there isn't an easy answer to your question of a singular code. If you could narrow your criteria (to something that interests you is a start), someone here may know how to get you headed off in a direction and on your way to a rewarding job. It does feel good to know you were able to glue two pieces together with an arc and have confidence that it will stay put.
John Wright

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 02-25-2005 14:06

TTT

I was hoping some of the others would chime in and can shed more light on this for Lucid.

By billvanderhoof (****)

Date 02-26-2005 06:35

I'm not a code guy but it seems to me that you should learn to weld, learn well, different processes, positions, the works. Ask anyone who is doing something you find hard how they do that, most will help. If in the course of learning some certifications come to you that is good. However you should expect that the value of these certifications is only to indicate to an interviewer that you once passed this test so when you repeat it for him the probability is that you can do it again. He will require that simply because it"s easier to do over than to try and audit it in from afar. Certifications can be quite limited and small changes in the process can require recertification. He wants to be certain that you have certified to the correct process and the only way to be absolutely sure is to watch you do it. Perhaps John or others will comment on just how bad things could be if the welding is all done and then it is found that the certs aren't quite right. On the other hand certification tests are designed to qualify welders not eliminate everybody. If you have learned well enough that you ought to be doing the work you will be able to pass the test.
Bill

By cccasey (**)

Date 02-28-2005 02:28

Lucid,
A few things not mentioned in the previous posts :
1- An AWS SENSE school will be set up to teach all the common welding processes and requires that the welder accomplish a variety of competencies to earn an Entry Level Welder Certificate. Example, Plate training in SMAW, GTAW, GMAW, FCAW,OFC, PAC, safety, drawing reading, weld symbols, and light NDE.
A student can follow this up with the Advance Welder training which gives you the same process experience but in pipe welding. There's also an expert level which teaches the student 6G welding, non ferrous metals and supervisory skills.
2- This "certification" is more like a diploma and won't expire. Your training is recorded into a national registry through AWS. I believe they (AWS) uses this registry to provide employers throughout the country with a data base of trained welders in their region.
3- This "certificate" will not guarantee an open door into employment, a welder will still have to pass the specific welding test for that particular industry, but...if the employer is in the know, they will view it as proof of good solid basic welding training which should open more doors to take the test.

I agree with the other posts about getting under the hood and welding so you can get a feel for the area in which you want to specialize. Welding is like doctoring, you can be a general practitioner or specialize into which ever process strikes your fancy. A SENSE school will give you the training and experience to help you decide which way you want to go.
I wish you luck in your endeavors, the welding industry has been my primary source of employment throughout my career and now I enjoy passing some of my know how onto young people so they can earn an honest living.
Curtis Casey
Northland Pioneer College
AWS SENSE school

By Lucid Date 03-08-2005 21:23

This board rocks!

My bad...I've been away from the web for a while.

Thanks to everyone for all the help!!! I now have a good idea of the direction I wanna go in.

In the last few months I've been taking a few things into consideration:
Training & Education
Certification
Performance
Procedure (Code)

The Marines brainwashed me into believing that everything has to be done a CERTAIN way...lol. So I like words like CODE, STANDARD, PROCEDURE, DETAIL, PROFESSIONAL, STRUCTURE etc...

I hear the word 'code' more than anything. So if this industry is driven by CODE, then that's great!

I should be in school by July!

Thanks alot. This thread was fun.
Jay

[next up: NDT :) ]

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 03-09-2005 14:04

[next up: NDT :) ]

This too will be specific to the type of work you find yourself involved with. For me in our line of work, I found Ultrasonics (UT), Mag Particle(MT), and then on very few occasions dye penetrant(PT). [edit]And I forgot about that I'm also a CWI.
John Wright