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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / 2" and 4" plate welding
- - By sbruno (*) Date 03-01-2005 16:16
I need help trying to control shrinkage while welding 2" and 4" steel plate. We are getting to much shrinkage even with good preheat. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thank you
Parent - - By mksqc (**) Date 03-01-2005 16:41
are you able to use strongbacks in this location?
Parent - - By sbruno (*) Date 03-01-2005 16:56
Yes, Strongbacks can be used, but due to configuration (the part is a grizzly)it would not be feasible or give us accessability to the locations we need to weld. total weight for this project is 50k+ lbs. There are approx. eighty welds at 2-4" thick by 24" in length. With no stress relief available, I would be afraid that once the strongbacks are removed the over all dims. would be further out then without the use of a strongback.
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 03-01-2005 17:44
Hi sbruno,

There are several approaches that can be taken to help control shrinkage forces. Joint design, design of the assembly, and proper welding sequence are important factors. Here are a few suggestions: 1. Do not overweld. The more metal placed in a joint, the greater the shrinkage forces. 2. Use intermittent welding as opposed to continuous where possible. 3. Use as few welds passes as possible. Fewer passes with larger diameter electrodes are preferable to a greater number of passes with smaller diameter electrodes. Shrinkage caused by each pass tends to be cumulative, thereby increasing total shrinkage when many passes are used. 4. Place welds near the neutral axis. Distortion is minimized by providing a smaller leverage for the shrinkage forces to pull the plates out of alignment. 5. Balance the welds around the neutral axis. This offsets one shrinkage force with another. 6. Use backstep welding. 7. Anticipate shrinkage forces by placing parts out of position before welding, so that they are drawn into the correct position afterwards. 8. Plan the welding sequence. Place weld metal at different points so that as the assembly shrinks in one place, it counteracts the shrinkage forces of the welds already made. 9. Remove shrinkage forces after welding by peening the weld bead. (Engineer approval should be obtained prior to using this method). 10. Minimize welding time. It is preferable to finish the welds quickly, before a large volume of surrounding metal heats and expands. The welding process used, electrode type and size, welding current, and travel speed affect the degree of shrinkage and distortion. There is also a very good book on the market that may be of interest to you, "Distortion Control" authored by John Stewart. It contains a lot of useful information. Check it out.
Parent - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 03-01-2005 18:25
Besides SWNorris advice, I'd recommend the "Welding Shop Foreman Handbook", published by The Lincoln Company.
All the precautions SWNorris mentions, and a few more, are there in the Handbook.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
Parent - By MBSims (****) Date 03-02-2005 03:33
You haven't provided much info on the configuration of the plates and joint types used. If you are butt welding plates together in the same plane, you will need to use double bevel grooves to balance the weld thickness on each side, and alternate welding layers on each side to counteract shrinkage. If you are making tee (fillet or groove) joints, the welding should also be alternated between sides to equalize the shrinkage as it is welded. If you are welding attachments on one side of a large flat base plate and the opposite side must remain within some flatness tolerance, you will need to restrain the flat plate with temporary stiffeners on the opposite side, then remove them and grind flush when all the attachment welds are finished on the other side. The other option is to use thicker plate and mill it flat when the welding is finished. There may be a bit of trial and error before you get good at estimating how much shrinkage/distortion will occur and how to best counteract it. Mr. Norris posted some good general guidance that should be followed. Use the largest electrode size possible to minimize the number of weld layers. Some folks believe that many small beads with low current creates less shrinkage than a few large beads with large electrodes. Don't believe it, weld some samples yourself and measure the distortion. Higher preheat also helps. If you would normally preheat this thickness to 250 F, increase the preheat to 350-450 F.

Good luck.
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 03-01-2005 20:08
I used a technique developed by B&W called a half bead temper technique. This is used to weld considerably thick sections that do not have the ability to be post weld heat treated. As far as angular distortion goes, this method allowed me to weld up a 2-1/2" unrestrained test coupon with VERY little angular distortion. I don't know if it would be useful in your situation but it may be worthy of a search on the internet.

Preheat and interpass temperature are closely cotrolled along with heat input. Since the angular distortion was small I assume that the transverse shrinkage is also reduced. The cross section of the joint after welding showed a reduction in thickness that I think is due to changing the direction of the residual stress.

If you have no luck, I can do up a web page describing what I remember but I would suggest a little better source of information as I have NO idea what this technique does mechanically other than the fact the test plate dostorted VERY little.

Have a nice day

Gerald Austin
http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com

Parent - - By sbruno (*) Date 03-01-2005 20:40
Thank you all for your very helpful information, I will look into the B&W half bead temper technique. This was my first experience with posting a question and I would like to thank all for spending their personal time to help. I only hope that I can return the help at sometime.

Sam Bruno
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 03-02-2005 15:13
At the risk of keeping it going, a while back there were some posts on vibratory stress relief. Our own company had looked into it but the use of VSR was not allowed on the project we would lhave liked to use it on. At any rate, information I had received indicates that VSR used while welding can reduce distortion. I don't know if that would suit your situation but you could look into that.

Chet Guilford
Parent - By sbruno (*) Date 03-02-2005 17:20
Unfortunately we can not use VSR, but thank you for the suggestions.

Sam
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / 2" and 4" plate welding

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