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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Shielding gases
- - By clayskarovsky Date 02-24-2005 20:16
Is there a gas mixture that can be used for both TIG and MIG welding to weld mild steel? Since I am just a hobbiest, I would like to be able to just buy one bottle and keep one gas on hand seeing how a bottle should last a few years at the rate I will be consuming it.

I think I will need a straight argon gas for the TIG but I have not been able to confirm if straight argon will be OK for MIG welding mild steel.


Thanks,
Clay Skarovsky
Parent - - By George-kh (**) Date 02-24-2005 23:06
Unfortunately no.
Pure Argon is not applicable for mild steel MIG/MAG.
Parent - By olmpkwelder474 (*) Date 02-25-2005 01:46
U could get spray transfer pretty easy and some ugly welds with the mig.he he
Parent - - By clayskarovsky Date 02-25-2005 16:43
OK, how about this? How will an argon/CO2/helium mixture work for TIG? I understand it should burn a little hotter but assuming it doesn't cause me to burn though will the welds look OK?
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-25-2005 18:01

CO2 will not work with Tig, GTAW requires an inert gas with only the fewest of exceptions (hydrogen) in mechanized applications.
Parent - - By backpurge (*) Date 02-26-2005 16:29
Lawrence
Do you mean you can only use hydrogen additions for mechanised welding, in the UK argon/hydrogen mixtures are commonplace for manual welding austenitic steels from 1/16 and upwards

Cheers - Bob
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-26-2005 18:59


Cool,

Learn something new every day.

Faster travel speeds or cleaner weld toes?

Why is it used?
Parent - By backpurge (*) Date 03-03-2005 09:00
You get both, on thicker materials (4mm) you can double your travel speed without increasing your amps, this means less heat input and reduced distortion.

You find you get a lot less oxide discolouration on the weldmetal and adjacent plate due to the reducing action of the hydrogen and lower heat input, it also works well for root purging although nitrogen with 10% hydrogen comes out even cleaner

Cheers - Bob
Parent - By sparx (**) Date 03-03-2005 13:29
The addition of Hydrogen of 2% up to 5% in manual tig on 300 series stainless steel has the advantage of increasing heat input into the puddle, resulting in a quicker stabilization of the puddle, faster travel speed, reduced oxidation of the weld, and because of the faster travel speed, a smaller heat affected zone. the issues with welding stainless, is the puddle is quite sluggish. additions of H2 increase the fluidity of the puddle resulting in beautiful looking, well wetted, gold hued beads.
I have done some testing for a customer with 2% and 5% H2 in Argon on some coupons. The weld was an outside corner with no filler rod, 3/16" material (316 stainless). The test was to show the increase in travel speed. test went something like this: when arc is initiated, stopwatch starts, fuse the two plates with 20 seconds of weld time. On the pure argon test, the weld length was about 4 inches. On the 2% H2 test, the length was about 7 inches. On the 5% H2, I ran out of plate. (test plates were about 12" long) The backside of the welds showed a huge difference in the heat affected zone with the argon bluing being about 1/2 to 3/4". the 5% H2 zone was about 1/8 to 3/16".
pretty interesting results.
Parent - - By Plasma56 (**) Date 03-04-2005 01:33
Well we all have an opinion and depending on how you read the question... I'll add my 2cents.

All you guys out there reading this please understand that I'm only reading the question out side the box,yes I have tried it to see if it would, and no I have never done any mechancial test on the welds...but I have tried it.

With the understanding that desperate times calling for desperate measures in a very non critical application...or only if your forced into it in desperation...

Yes you could use CO2 to do tig on carbon steels it will work,conducting an arc, and you can run a bead with an ER70s-6 filler, BUT... the weld quality sucks due to the oxidation that occurs using CO2.
Pure Argon will as well work for GMAW on short circuit transfer,but it sucks as well,with a high crowned bead and no wetting of the toes.
Is it ok...no its not.
Why...
because its not the right or proper way to weld with either process... but it works.
Oh yea...and if you position a GMAW gun in a radiograph fixture,turn off the shielding gas,bury the wire and arc in flux, it's a real poor mans Sub Arc...all in the name of education and discovery.
And if it wasn't for some student asking I probably wouldn't have tried.
Parent - By billvanderhoof (****) Date 03-04-2005 05:25
Thanks, This sort of question keeps recurring and I for one have wished that someone would do the experiment and report.
Bill
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Shielding gases

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