THE Question of Ethics

Date 03-04-2005 23:43

Recently had the opportunity to renew a few welding certifications at no $ for materials and equipment (I used a clients). I paid for the NDT.

Had 2 tests (1F/2F) VT, mechanically tested with bends and macros, the other (2G-CJP) VT w/RT which I have [the acceptable] radiograph and report here.

Question:
Can you write up your qualification documents for your own WPQR's?
(Includes certifying statement & wallet card)

*I can use another SS&W inspector, SCWI, CWI or CAWI to sign docs, but why? Will also cost a 4 hour mini for the inspector's show-up time, however $ is not the issue.
*Applicable codes/standards/specifications do not prohibit this action.
*Truth is, once I printed out the docs, I did not sign/stamp them - yet.
*Many thoughts on this over here, what are yours?

By thcqci

Date 03-05-2005 12:47

I agree there is nothing that would prohibit it... in structural codes anyway.

But, if someone, who you did not already know, came to you and presented certification papers that had their name at the top, and again at the bottom, would you not ask a few questions and also be suspicious about the validity of them. In my opinion, the only people that would take them seriously would be people that already know your skills. To save the hassle that will no doubt follow, I would spend the money to have an independent person's name at the bottom.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 03-07-2005 14:15

I don't see this as an ethics question as much as it is a perception question for outsiders. I personally don't see any thing in writing that prohibits this. It does raise a question or two from an outside auditor's standpoint. Mainly with Structural work by a fabricator working under AISC certification.

If I was an auditor and I came to a shop and the inspector had dual duties of welding and inspecting, my first question to the fabricator would be... who in this organization would be responsible for inspecting the inspector's production welding and fabricating for final inspection?

Under the new standard Tab 13.1 Assignment of QC Inspections and Monitoring, it states that "they do not inspect their own work".

Is there another CWI that can sign off on this work for you within this organization?
If so, I would get this indivdual to also sign off on your WPQRs just to keep the possible questions at bay.
John Wright

PS. I have wanted to write up my own welding papers too, but I'm the only QC/QA here at this facility and wondered, (as you are) about the perception of this practice.

By CHGuilford (****)

Date 03-07-2005 14:26

thcqci and John hit the important parts. Testing is assumed to require impartiality, even though the codes don't specifically say you can't sign your own WQTRs. In fact, with most D1.1 & D1.5, you don't even have to be a CWI.
I am sure you would likely be tougher on your own tests than on someone elses, but how do you prove that to a skeptical reviewer? I would get another person to review and sign the documents.

Chet

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 03-07-2005 14:54

Chet,
I even went so far as thinking of how I would keep the NTD and bend samples on file for anyone who questioned the validity of the performance testing. After all, it is only a test to show that you, as the welder, have the ability to make sound welds. But I chicken'd out on going through with it all for the reasons we are discussing.
John Wright

By DGXL

Date 03-07-2005 16:04

Hi All:
Even before thqci replied the other day, I guess I decided it was a bad idea. As noted above, I have the test samples and radiograph. I could haul these around any time someone challenged the documents... Already typed in the name of a CWI friend of mine on all the docs to sign this week.

"...if someone, who you did not already know, came to you and presented certification papers that had their name at the top, and again at the bottom, would you not ask a few questions and also be suspicious about the validity of them." I know I would have a problem with this paper work if it was coming from the other direction - good point.

I'll go stand in the corner now...