Hi. 1st timer here. I'm 23 and planning on attending a two year community trade college. I have narrowed my interest to two majors: metal fabrication & welding tech or masonory & brick tech courses. I enjoy welding(took one stick welding course), however, i'm concerned what kind of financial future i'll have in the trade. It seems that a lot of trades including welding are slowing down and when I do see job posting it seems they want you to be an expert and know everything but only pay you 10-12 dollars and hour. My father for example has been a machinist for 35 years, he is damn good at his trade but he has been lay off 5-6 times in the last couple of years. When he does find employment it's usually temp work and very low wages somtimes 1/3to 1/2 what he use to make in the late 80's early 90's. Anyway i'm just asking the guys that have been in the trade a while if they have any regrets or wished they had gone into some other kind of work. I'm not asking to be rich but I don't want to be living from paycheck to paycheck either. So tell me your thoughts, and what trade you think will serve me better in the future. Thanks, Mike
I just finished a Metal Fab Citation 5 month program at a local trades college. I've sent out 30+ resumes over the last month and have had 7 interviews; 2 recent interviews look promising. Personally, $16/hr to start is my lower limit, with a family, mortgage, car payment, etc. I can sweep floors or drive a forklift for $14/hr and find it sad when a fab shop pays anything lower. I won't give up trying as I worked very hard getting the course finished with a 3.3gpa. Something will come up...like you said; "I'm not asking to be rich but I don't want to be living from paycheck to paycheck either."
Our company does projects up and down the east coast. Welders (competent, hard working welders) are like gold. We have to pass on many opportunities because we simply can't staff the job.
As for the two year CC, go for it. There is an inspector in our QA/QC Dept who went that route. He welded for seven years, ran a few crews, got his CWI and is now one of our most impressive inspectors. I believe part of the reason (a big part) is because he is an excellent welder. We do a lot of Boiler & Pressure Vessel work, so we had him attend the National Board AI school. He has passed all the necessary competency exams needed to become an AI. He is a valuable asset to our company and could literally find a job anywhere. Oh, he is only 34 years old.
Charles.
By -
Date 04-20-2005 22:05
Mike,
I'm the Welding Engineer for one of the world's largest producer of stainless steel welding consumables, and please let me tell you that the welding industry is not a dying breed. I must say, though, that it is becoming a more specialized field. Comparing machinist to welders is not comparing apples to apples. Taking one stick rod course is only the tip of the iceberg. Base metal technology and filler metal technology is changing every day, so that means the welding technology is also changing. Becoming the proficient welder that is able to pull his weight is not going to be achieved in a few years. If you are not going to put your every fiber of your being into willingness to stay atop of the ever changing technology, I suggest you go into another field. A sign over the Prof.s door once said, "Welding is 10% ability and 90% desire." Over the years I have found this to be very true. If you don't have that desire to become the best welder you can, you will be out there with those $10-12 an hour guys. Whatever you decide to do, do it with all your heart. Good luck.
Chuck
If you want to weld (as a career) get into pipe welding. That means mastering TIG and stick welding. Most fabrication shops don't pay squat as the skills required to mig weld (which most fab shops use) are not the same as what it takes to weld pipe with other processes.
I am also promoting industrial construction (to earn the most money). To make the most money (and stay employed) you have to better than the rest as welding in construction is highly competitive.
Here is how it is (my opinion) : Say there are 100 pipe welders
50 can stick weld (pipe) but cannot TIG
40 can TIG and stick weld pipe, but are either too slow or quality is not always consistent
10 can tig/stick weld pipe where their quality is exceptional and they can get the welds done quickly and seldom "bust-out" an x-ray inspected weld. You will always have to test out to get your job (in most cases).
The latter qroup is always working when they want to be and extensive travel is the norm, but you have to go where the work is sometimes.
If you make it to the last 10 percent, companies get to know your name as your reputation preceeds you. This doesn't happen overnite, but if you work at ......anything is possible.
Some contractors will hire you with little experience and then as you show aptitude, they'll put you on fussier jobs where extreme quality is required....that's how you get the reputation started.
Unions are an option if you don't mind apprentiship for 4 years and you'll make decent wage, but you'll risk lay-offs if you are not related to someone (in the union).
By the way, welding (in construction) doesn't really slow down, but as I mentioned earlier, you may have to travel. Another thing, welding jobs in construction are not always advertised, so getting a good repution as a craftsperson will get you more information that you may not see on a web site, as by the time it gets there.....positions are aready filled.
Good Luck!
Take a serious look at the Plumbers and Steamfitters Apprenticeship program. you will earn good wages, and have almost two years of college credit when you finish. they have a good web site listed under the United Association of Plumbers and Steamfitters.
Andy
This is an excellent idea. I went through the 5 year apprentice program with Local Union 211 and came out with more knowledge than if I had just tried to get on-the-job experience. A lot of people are critical of the unions, but for getting verifiable and invaluable experience and knowledge, it is the way to go. When I went through it, it was a 5 year program, but I think it might be 4 years now. Anyway, you can still work during the day and go to apprentice school 2-3 days a night. I will guarantee you that you will be a better craftsman than if you just tried to get this experience just being on a job. In the long run, your individual desire and ambition will determine how successful you will be.
Chuck
FYI unions are tough to get into. If you want to learn to weld.....don't bother trying as there are many good trade schools out there. Get into pipe welding and you'll make more money in the long run unless you are related to the business agent to the union you are in.
Where is all the quality in the Boston "Big Dig" ????? Too many holes & Leaks where it will take 10 years to fix it.....even if it ever is fix.
Just my opinion altho if you are gonna promote unions, you should mention that you need the union book which is usually 100% of rate of pay with bennies. Say a 1st year apprentice gets 19.00 / hour (including bennies) he or she has to pay the union $1900 plus dues.
Union benefits are definately the best in America, but not necessary the best craftsmen are union workers.
Great information if it were accurate. 27years in the union and kin to none. Yes, there are dues, but never heard of 100% of your pay rate + dues. No on is "promoting" the union, just giving our personal opinion, just like you did. Also, the retirement and benefits are great, and your education , including in depth welding, is included. You mentioned quality? Where was the quality at the South Texas Nuclear Power House that B&R was kicked out of? How about the explosion that killed 15 people and injured over 100 in Texas City a month ago at the Amoco BP plant? Where was the quality there?
CM
Does anyone know of the exact cause of the explotion at Ammoco? It is an extreme tradjedy no matter what the cause. B& R was run off at the Texas Nuclear Power station? Probabaly deserved it, but it may not be due to their quality unless you have verifiable proof that it was the reason, than maybe you shouldn't slam non-union (i was not slamming the unions).
I don't which part of the USA you live at, but here in New England, you have to pay 100% of the rate Maybe not at once) which in the Boston local Pipefitter's union is around $6000.00. That's a fact.
How does this appeal to you (also a Fact), the contractor I have worked for which was "Targeted" by the Boston local....offered me the "Book" free of charge! I am not lying. How would the "Brothers" of that Local accept me that knowng they had to pay for their own Book???? That's the main reason I didn't join. plus I suspected I would have been laid-off fairly soon as I saw others who took the offer wind up that way.
Really though, there are good and bad craftsmen in both union and non-union. I would say that there are probably better welders in the union controlled power plants and that's Great! Because they need it most there. Personally, I don't believe in Nuclear energy as the is still no safe place to store the nuclear waste.....so Go Union, Go!
Union or not their are good and bad workers.
In a non-union shop it could be low pay that makes the worker do a half-way job or it could be pure enthusiasm and doing a good job no matter what the pay.
In a union setting its based on hours / time with the company that gets the wrong people ahead of a more competent workers. Not always a fair way but, it can work.
Number one thing is to be happy with what you are doing and comfortable with the company you are working for.
Thank you for your replies. I did not mean to make it sounds as if I was slamming the nonunion workers. I think everyone has a right to feed his family. I was born and raised in the town where the explosion happened (Texas City, Texas). A fact is that since non-union labor was hired at Amoco-BP, and this is a verifible fact, that the accident rate over the last 4 years has more than doubled. All I was trying to say was that a lot of misconceptions are attributed to the unions, good and bad. I just think that a person starting out in the union has a great opportunity for a good education and valuable experience with the opportunity to make a good living. Brown&Root was "asked to leave" the South Texas Nuclear facility in 1980 due to excessive bad welds and less than acceptable workmanship. This is, again, a fact. B&R was more than 5 years behind in the completion date, due to many different circumstances, but ended up only 3 years past the targeted date after the unions finished the job. This is not to sound Pro-union or Anti-nonunion, just stating my opinion. The main thing is that we all have the same opportunity to feed out family.
Chuck
It is funny how everyone goes after the union/non-union issue. How about holding the independent inspector accountable. Oh, I am sorry, there probably was an inspector but he surely worked for the contractor. That would certainly cloud his objectivity.
Independent inspectors are a very important part of quality control for any industry. Police are not effective at policing themself, neither are welders. When manufacturing, this is even more important.
By -
Date 04-27-2005 15:23
Leon,
Very good point. And you're right, the inspection team, and quality control inspectors did work for the contractor both when the nonunion and union was in there. Sort of like a Catch-22, huh?
CM
