Table 3.1 of AWS D1.1

Date 05-02-2005 19:05

You must be looking in a D1.1 older than 2002. I do not have readily available 1998 or 2000 editions. In 2002 the code dropped that note. Also changed in 2002 edition and maintained in 2004 edition, A36 and A709 Gr. 36, less than or equal to ¾" thick may use non-low hydrogen electrodes. Greater than ¾" requires low-hydrogen electrodes. Since it applies to both steels equally in 2002 and later, I would assume it to apply to both in earlier editions also. No notes specifically applying to A36 or A709 Gr. 36, or cyclically loaded structures appear at the bottom of Table 3.1 in 2002 or 2004 editions.

By swnorris (****)

Date 05-02-2005 22:05

Note 4 was in the 2000 D1.1. Although academic at this point, to answer your question, it was intended for both material grades, as Doug indicated. I got curious about any notes prior to the revision to the 2002 edition, and found this:
In the 1980 D1.1, the note read: "Only low hydrogen electrodes shall be used when welding A36 or A709 Grade 36 steel more than 1" thick for bridges".
In the 1992 D1.1, the note read: "Only low hydrogen electrodes shall be used when welding A36 or A709 Grade 36 steel more than 1" thick for dynamically loaded structures".
In the 1998 D1.1, the note read: "Only low hydrogen electrodes shall be used when welding A36 or A709 Grade 36 steel more than 1" thick for cyclically loaded structures", which is the same note that is in the 2000 edition.

By HgTX

Date 05-02-2005 22:05

But for what it's worth, the original note would have applied to both types. ASTM A 36 and ASTM A 709 Gr. 36 are essentially the same steel and there would be no reason to distinguish between the two.

Hg

By billvanderhoof (****)

Date 05-03-2005 06:46

I suppose that if you wanted to read it that way you could get- "Only low hydrogen electrodes shall be used when welding A36 (any thickness) or A709 Grade 36 steel more than 1" thick for bridges". I suppose that an english teacher might want a comma someplace to make it come out that way (never was real good at the comma thing). Just shows how careful you have to be to make english unambiguous.
Bill

By CHGuilford (****)

Date 05-03-2005 16:31

That's exactly right in that you have to be careful with the use of english (or any language). It is amazing how often I can write a procedure, and think that it could not be made any clearer, only to find that many people don't understand what I wrote. Very humbling; even though a lot of thought may have gone into the procedure, it does no good if there is no one around who can read minds .

I think Hg mentioned it first, that A36 and A709 grade 36 are basically the same material. For that reason, I agree that the spec applies equally to both material designations.

Chet Guilford

By HgTX

Date 05-03-2005 16:39

Bill, that's still not it. The 1" would also apply to both.

I can't really figure out how to disambiguate that sentence. Leaving out the second "ASTM" to make it "ASTM A36 or A709 Gr. 36" would have a bit more of an effect of grouping the two grades together with respect to the rest of the sentence.

What it really comes down to, though, is using the meaning of the terms (rather than just the sentence structure) to come up with the right meaning. Since A 36 and A 709 Gr. 36 are pretty much interchangeable, there is no reason that any of the provisions of that sentence would apply to one and not the other.

Hg

By swnorris (****)

Date 05-03-2005 19:17

I really never read anything into the sentence other than that it is intended for both specifications, but maybe it would be clearer to everyone if it was stated this way: "Only low hydrogen electrodes shall be used when welding any A36 or A709 Grade 36 steel of more than one inch thick for cyclically loaded structures". I realize that someone else could interpret that way differently as well. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that how lawyers make their living? I agree with Chet about having to be careful about the use of english. I remember one time I was driving out in the country, and I saw a sign that said "free firewood". As I pondered just who firewood was, and what he had done, I ran off the road. Then, there was this other time I was riding around and got pulled over for kitty littering.......