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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Aircraft Aluminum
- - By Skyhawk Greg (*) Date 06-10-2005 02:01
Hi. Am rather new to TIG welding and have a problem. Hope somebody catches what I am doing wrong. Here are the givens:

* Butt welding .032 aircraft aluminum
* The airplane mechanic says that aircraft uses a 2000 series aluminum.
He didn't know anything more.
* Miller Dynasty 200 DX, in AC mode and factory defaults
* .040 Ceriated electrode
* 15 cfh argon
* #7 nozzle
* 1/16" dia 4043 filler rod
* Footpedal set to go up to 40 amps
* SS wire brush cleaned rod and base material just prior to welding


The problem is that holes blow through the base material before the filler rod melts. No blackness, just cottage cheese quality at best, where sections happened to weld themselves together. I am slowly taking the amperage up with the footpedal until there is a puddle. At this point, I back off a little to keep the puddle from blowing through. When the filler rod is inserted into the puddle, it doesn't melt - instead it does nothing, and then turns into BB's on the surface. When I try to melt the BB's, holes go through the base material before the BB's melt.

I am willing to practice until I get it, but does anything look wrong with the setup that would get in the way of eventual success? Nothing in MIG (even aluminum) or SMAW has ever flustered me this much! Thank you. Greg
Parent - By CallMeTigger Date 06-10-2005 02:38
The major alloy in 2000 series is Copper, it's unweldable with TIG. As far as I know. You can resistance weld it. If your wanting to learn to weld Aluminum try to find 6000 series, can be welded with most processes.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-10-2005 04:01

Welding aircraft components without a class 1 repair doccument approved by the manufacturer is a bad practice at best.

If your job is aircraft aluminum that won't fly ever, thats another story.

Finding out the material type is very important. As mentioned, 2000 series aluminum is not going to be sound after welding. 7075 is the other primary alloy used for aircraft structures, this is also unweldable. Your aircraft mechanic friend can do the research to find out what material that component.

If you find that your material is 6061 sheet than you can do a few things that will make those butt welds go just fine.

First is surface prep. Oxides must be removed, for that thin material I suggest an aluminum oxide scotchbrite disc 11/2 inch dia. mounted on a 12-18thousand rpm angle die grinder.

Next. No gap in the butt joint. It must be *cleanly* sheared with no roughness at the mating surfaces. There must be very little mismatch when you tack it (less than 0.010 max mismatch). Hold it up to a light, it must be tight.

Next, do a trial on 1.5 x 4 inch coupons

Set dynasty balence control to 60

Set frequency to 120

Set amps at 25-30, you won't need it all but its nice to have a little juice at the beginning.

Sharpen your tungsten and keep it perfectly clean. Stop at once if you dip it even a little and redress. 0.040 may work, so will 1/16

Technique. Tightly tack at each end, 6061 requires filler even for the tacks.

After tacking, make a slight tent out of your coupon so that your reenforcement will not get heat sinked on the table. Just enough to keep the root about 1/8 inch off the table.

Torch angle should be practically perpendicular, maybe 5 to 10 degrees push angle. Strike an arc on the joint line 1/4 inch inside of the tack and don't add wire until you see the line between your work pieces both melt. If your piece is prepped properly it will melt together rather than seperate. add wire to the pool as soon as you see it sink, than move forward and repeat until you reach the end.

Parent - By Skyhawk Greg (*) Date 06-10-2005 15:04
Thank you both for your time and thoughts. The way things were going, I was pretty sure I was barking up the wrong tree! Strayed away from the 6000 series when an aircraft mechanic friend offered lots of scrap aluminum to practice on. Lawrence, thank you for the precise detail for the procedure. Most of the books that I have do not really cover procedures for aluminum that is thinner than 1/16", and you brought up several points that I had not been aware of.
Parent - - By PaulyZ (*) Date 06-10-2005 14:55
Making the assumption the purpose of this repair is so this aircraft can fly again I have to agree with Lawrence. It’s just not a wise move to proceed without being approved to do such repairs. Proper material identification (statement from a mechanic doesn’t count) is paramount to any structural repair, welded or not. In addition to proper welding technique, some form of post weld inspection is almost certainly mandatory. This inspection, in most cases, requires NDT equipment and someone w/ an A&P cert qualified (usually by the repair station) to conduct such an inspection. Being new to TIG welding isn’t going help either.

During my years as a structural mechanic with a heavy jet repair station we only made a handful of welding repairs. Out of those few instances the components were mainly titanium or inconel and not structural members.
Parent - - By Skyhawk Greg (*) Date 06-10-2005 15:16
PaulyZ - You, and anybody who has ever been in an aircraft, were probably cringing at the sight of this initial post! Should have explained that an A&P friend of mine has a large pile of scrap aluminum, and he offered as much as I need, so that I can learn to TIG weld. Blue Skies!
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-10-2005 15:41
Now thats a horse of a different color. And Yes I used to be the welding instructor for UAL so I was cringing a bit.

The scary fact is that most A&P/AMT mechanics have had at best about 20 hours with an oxy-fuel rig and a few pieces of 4130 tube. The FAA has determined this is suitable instruction to allow any Liscenced mechanic to sign off any weld of of any process. OEMs may have higher inspection standards but the FAA does not. This is why airlines and engine manufactures have standard practice manuals. A lone wolf mechanic can be a scary thing.

You can practice on 2000 series *scrap* just be ready for hot cracking and don't take em personally.

If your looking for a challenging practice piece go ahead and weld together some soda cans.

Same machine settings. Just poke a hole in the concave bottom of one of the cans and rince them out first. butt them together tight, put on 3 tacks and keep that tungsten very tight in the groove. It's very good very cheap practice.
Parent - - By Skyhawk Greg (*) Date 06-10-2005 16:15
Sounds like fun! Will the 1/16" dia. 4043 filler rod work on pop cans? Or, would it be a good idea to use some .035 dia. 4043 wire from my MIG welder? From all the charts that are published, it appears that the filler rod should not be thicker than the base material.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-10-2005 16:43


Either wire will do. I use 1/16

Those cans are less than 15 thou so your not going to find a filler that small :)
Parent - - By CallMeTigger Date 06-10-2005 16:54
Are Coke products the only ones that are pure? I never had much luck with A pop can, I got around maybe half way, then I didn't let it cool down and started blowing holes. Another thing I had a problem with was grounding too, try to put it on the tab. It will make ya cuss, thats for sure.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-10-2005 18:11


Don't know about pure, not sure about the alloy. But coke, pepsi, or bud all weld out about the same in my experience.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Aircraft Aluminum

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