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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Anyone Who Is Knowledgable.
- - By rebirth (*) Date 06-30-2005 15:40
I am not an expert and don't claim to be-- I have a Miller syncrowave 250,, just recently the arc became extremely erratic. I tried the K.I.S.S. method to try to narrow the problem down but I think it's internal. I tested it "stick" amd "tig" and it's the same out come for both it's still very erractic, no control what-so-ever of the arc, doesn't even get the workpiece hot but when you touch the tungsten with the piece, it will "join" then have to wobble it off to separate. So basically I called a few places and all they say is "bring it down" and we will "ship it out to get it looked at" this is a very heavy machine and I assume shipping alone on this is worth posting a message here before I spend tons shipping it out. If anyone has any insight on this or can narrow or point me in the right direction, it would be "cool" .. Thank you.
Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 06-30-2005 16:46
Is it wired for single phase current?
Parent - By rebirth (*) Date 06-30-2005 18:23
Telling you the truth I do not know how it's wired--- it was wired by a professional and it has been working great up until yesterday---
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-30-2005 17:34

Keeping with the KISS theme



This is the link to Miller electric owners manuels.
http://millerwelds.com/service/ownersmanuals.php

The website is easy to use. Just make sure you have the serial number to your synchrowave handy. The manual will have a troubleshooting guide that you should check out before spending any cash.


I
Parent - - By rebirth (*) Date 06-30-2005 18:27
Yes I have the manual "it's useless" and the end of every entry that explains the obvious, (spark gaps, cleaning, grounding. gas, tungsten etc etc.) I have gone through every obvious simple measure extra carefully to try to rule out the simple stuff. it tells you to contact the Miller people and I called them and they are useless-- they aren't up-to-date with there local contacts for servicing. Trying maybe to get a different perspective maybe I missed something. But miller just wants to sell parts. Thank you
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 06-30-2005 18:55
rebirth,

Try contacting:

Kirk D. Webb
Welding Engineer
Miller Electric Mfg. Co.
N822 Communication Dr.
Appleton, WI 54914
920-954-3623
920-740-2142 - Cell
920-954-3633 - Fax
kwebb@millerwelds.com

He is willing to help you
Parent - By pjseaman (**) Date 06-30-2005 23:41
I agree contact miller directly, their tech dept is the best. Not to say it still won't have to have a service but it may be a simple tweek on a board or even a simple replacement to avoid moving the monster.

Good luck, hope this is resolved quick and easy.
pjs
Parent - - By brande (***) Date 07-02-2005 03:48
Sounds as if, maybe, some switches are in the wrong place.

The Syncro 250 is a very strong design with very few weaknesses.

Don't overlook the obvious. From what you say, a place to check might be the contactor control. In tig with a remote control, be sure the switch is in "remote". In stick, mahe sure the switch is in "local".

A tig torch with a "broken cable" might do the things you describe as well.

I could go on-let me know as many particulars as possible. The smallest detail is important. If it worked then-it should work now.

I'm sure we can get this figured out!

Email me directly as I don't get out on the boards as much as I would like!

My experience in contacting the factory is very mixed. At one time the Miller Techs were the very best in the business. Then there was the buyout. At that time, the help was not so good as they got rid of a lot of the old techs. It's been a while since I contacted them, though.
I hope things at Miller Service are better now.

Thanks for my vent-contact me-we'll get this beast figured out!!


Good Luck

brande

Parent - By rebirth (*) Date 07-02-2005 18:27
Thanks for the relpy--- I really don't understand what you mean the switches are in the wrong place... The machine was actually working perfectly up-to-this-point. I am using the "keep it simple stupid method" to diagnose the obvious.. The tig and stick mode work as they should when plugged up.. but neither stick or tig do what they are supposed to when hooked up. I cleaning the machined internally with a air gun and vacuum after the problem occured (just to be sure). I cleaned and re-gapped the "spark gaps". Now speaking about the broken cable -- there is an arc that flows out of the tig once you press the remote, >> Now to get specific<<< we will go step by step
1. Turn the gas on
2. Turn the power on ( everything is set to tig, w/ electrode negative) which doesn't make a difference because the arc reacts the same way.
3. Set the amperage say to: 75 amps
4. Set the post flow something mediocre just for kicks because it doesn't make a major difference to the problem at hand. (just enough not to blacken the tungsten)
5. Ground the surface I am about to "tig"
6. Start tig-ing,,, The arc seems to be coming out of the outsides of the tungsten straight (erractically) to the piece (steel),,, very erractic, the more I press the remote (the more erractic). The steel doesn't get hot or anything, seems the arc isn't concentrated, But when I touch the tungsten to the piece it definitely sticks to it (just for a test).
7. That is pretty much it,,, I go over every step with a magnifying glass,
sharpen the tungsten perfectly, mkae sure everything is well grounded,
make sure everything is clean, make sure all dials are as they were when it worked.

>>>>> I also called Miller and I got the same text book help,, he kinda read everything I already read in the manual-- and their service addresses are out-dated by about 3 years.. "No Help" but "Kirk" did mention something interesting about touchinge tungsten right to the ground clamp and check the meters--something if it reads more than 5 volts there is an electrical problem,, which, I didn't do because my machine had optional meters which I never bothered to buy.. So that renders that theory somewhat useless....


>>>>Well that is pretty much it Brande I am "ROYALLY BAFFLED" I am actually hoping you can help-- I have a project which is indefinitely put on hold now--- because everyone wants me to ship this to get serviced


and this machine doesn't weigh 10 pounds... But thanks again for you're reply and hopefully you have a great weekend... Thank you

No problem with the VENTING
Parent - - By welder5354 (**) Date 07-03-2005 02:54
It sounds to me that there is not enought current flowing (broken cable somewhere).
If it was tig, only with a foot pedal; then i would say check the foot pedal. Many times i have pulled apart the foot pedal and found that the wiring was only hanging by one strand. The continuity gauge was fine, but the power was not enought to give good results.
Parent - - By Mike W (**) Date 07-03-2005 19:30
I have a newer unit at work with the digital meters. I would try it in AC stick mode. Check the open circuit output voltage and then while trying to start an arc. A clamp on ammeter would also be nice to have. The main circuit board controls the scr modules. It sounds like you only are getting the high freq voltage and not any welding current. Try the voltmeter test and see what you get. Also double check your ground clamp.
Parent - - By rebirth (*) Date 07-04-2005 05:12
Thank you Mike W----
Please explain what u just mentioned as if I was a 5 year old, I tried it in stick mode and it was still erratic---I don't know where the "open output voltage is"? to even check it --I am new to working inside one and don't want to screw anything up. I am able to scratch start the tig with the HF off and it's still erratic as if using the remote either + or - electrode... But it seems you know what u are talking about? Brande seems knowledgable also but hasn't replied back yet... Thank you
Parent - - By Mike W (**) Date 07-04-2005 08:40
Ok, put a voltmeter on the output connectors and turn on the power. I will have to check but you should see between 45 and 80 volts AC. This is in the AC stick mode. If I have time, I will check mine tomorrow. I have to work anyway. I had a problem after a year where the unit would not start, no HF, no welding current. I started looking real close and found out that the remote connector jack on the Syncro did not have the pins soldered. I soldered them and it has been fine ever since. We should be able to find the problem without having to ship the welder out. This is one reason why I like the old transformer type welders.
Parent - - By rebirth (*) Date 07-04-2005 18:21
Okay my apologies --a little detail I screwed up on that someone shed light on this for me... The machine was bought used and I had a "thumbs-up" to purchase it from an actual trained welder. The mistake is when I mentioned the "scratch-start" part.. the machine never started by "scratch-start" in either + or - electrode and my friend figured it was tweaking or switching buttons he had to do to make this work. So maybe led up to this extremely erractic arc problem I have now. One person mentioned it was the HF transformer, but I figured that was wrong since you don't need this in stick mode and the arc is erractic in "stick" mode.. (but keep in mind I have been tiggin in HF for quite awhile before thsi happened.) Figured I add this to the total problem which I forgot to mention earlier. But the main problem which I mentioned when I statred this forum still applies.

>> Thanks and I will check further inside and take a look and try to find the " remote connector jack" you mentioned.<<< (but keep in mind I do get HF I am assuming-- it does start--- just very erratic and I guess no welding current because the piece doesn't even warm up or puddle (not even close) very erractic..

Parent - - By Mike W (**) Date 07-05-2005 08:20
I just had time to do a quick test. In the DC stick mode I measured 65 volts DC on the output connectors. Check yours and see what you measure.
Parent - By rebirth (*) Date 07-05-2005 16:22
I will take a measurement for you---- Thank you
Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 07-05-2005 14:53
I know you said you tried all the simple stuff first but I have not seen any mention of the primary circut (I may have missed it).

But I sure sounds as though you have lost one leg of the primary power, so like a dummy I will ask. Have you checked fuses.
Parent - - By rebirth (*) Date 07-05-2005 16:21
What would or, how would you like me to check the primary circuit... and when you mean "fuses" I assume you me the one's on the main "square D" "main power switch" If those were meant they are perfect. Now if you mean internal "syncrowave" fuses I only notice "1" that is the one next to or almost next to the "remote" in or near the "-" side of the output power... if you mean that 15 amp circuit breaker that is still in place and hasn't "popped'out" or blown.
Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 07-05-2005 17:35
I am still unclear if you have, but! If you have allready checked and you are satisfied all is ok on the primary side disregard this post.

No I am only thinking in terms of the primary side of the machine. Yes the fuses in the Square "D" box.

If you want to KISS it, check to see you are getting full primary current first and if you are then look into the machine (kinda like glancing at the gas gage when the engine stops).

If you have the means (VoltOhm meter), check to see if you are getting (220/440) how ever it is wired. Check for a loose or faulty connection.

I have had a problem in the past of the On/Off switch not closing all contacts. Machine (Miller) would only make sparks (and stick the rod).
Parent - - By Partagas (*) Date 07-15-2005 03:05
I also am a newbie. But one thing I have noticed about this thread is no one asked about something as simple as " have you checked the ground ". Yes you have reattached it, but have you checked to make sure 1) the ground in connected to your system 2) make sure their is no breaks in it.

As I said I am a newbie with a simple idea.
Parent - By REG388 Date 08-10-2005 14:00
I had this very thing happen to me, and as someone else mentioned it was the ground. I had spark, but it would not get hot enough to weld. The spark was a little weak. Come to find out the piece was grounding to the floor enough to get a spark, but it was not grounding to the machine. My ground clamp had developed a corrosion on the connection point, cleaned this off and solved my problem. REG
Parent - By REG388 Date 08-20-2005 11:49
Did you ever find out what your problem was? You could at least let those of us who took the time to try and help, know what you found out.
Parent - By bobby1 (*) Date 08-21-2005 12:01
check that the generator or transformer have good current control in the low range. This is necessary in order to maintain a stable arc. I would also check out switching from AC to DC or vice versa. I would also make sure that the metal is very clean if it is not it would do as you are explaining, the arc can not penetrate through scale or oil film and would cause the arc to jump around and the plate would never get enough heat to melt.alternate current is best to use on aluminum, magnesium. the best I can see you have what is called RECTIFICATION this means that the arc is unstable and sometimes goes out. some machines correct this by a highfrequency current flow unit.This is able to jump the gap between the electrode and the work piece piercing the oxide film and forming a path fot the welding current to flow
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Anyone Who Is Knowledgable.

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