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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / A-333 Gr. 6
- - By welderette (**) Date 09-29-2005 17:38
What would be the correct filler material for this P1 piping material?
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 09-29-2005 19:16
Any 70 series would be adequate.
Parent - - By welderette (**) Date 09-29-2005 21:03
We are using 70S2 / 7018 combo; It appears to be sugaring the root in places. Of course we are not purging, has anyone had this experience?
Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome.
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 09-29-2005 23:03
Are you certain it is sugaring? Of course there is no need to purge for carbon steels, what is the thickness of your GTAW deposit? We use ER70S-6 almost exclusively for our carbon steel applications and haven't had any problems although 70S-2 should yield nearly identical results.
Parent - - By welderette (**) Date 09-29-2005 23:43
Jon. It was definitely sugared, but we determined that it was from the welder not purging his torch line enough before he started. What is the difference between 70S2 and 70S6? This a Chlorine line and the spec calls for notch toughness on pipe and fittings. Will 70S2 adversely affect this?
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 09-30-2005 01:43
Strange. Maybe the shielding gas was bad, we have had bad gas problems before when using GTAW (causing porosity), but have not had problems with the torch not being purged, causing sugaring.

Neither the pipe nor the fittings should be affected by 70S-2 with regard to notch toughness but what are the values called out in the spec?

If you can lay your hands on an ASME Section II, Part C, you will be able to look up the notch toughness this filler should exhibit as well as finding the differences between 70S-2 and 70S-6. If you can't let me know and I'll scan a copy of SFA-5.18 and send it to you via e-mail if you like.
Parent - - By welderette (**) Date 09-30-2005 14:55
jon, I have done the research in section II and the findings are that the 70S2 has a notch toughness of 20 ft.lbf at -20 deg F. Our spec requires toughness to -50 deg F. Looking further at SFA-5.28 I find an
electrode ER-80S-NI1 with Notch toughness of 20 ft.lbf @ -50 deg F.I'm thinking this would be a better match. For the low hydrogen it would be E-80C-NI1. I realize I do not have to requalify my welders, but do I have to qualify a procedure? We have P1 to P1 procedures .
I have really dropped the ball on this one and have shut down the work to cut out the 1 root & hot we have made, and re evaluate. Any help or insight you may provide would be greatly appreciated.
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 09-30-2005 15:35
welderette; sorry to hear about the problems, we all drop one once in a while, just learn from the hiccough and move forward!

The answer to your question about weld procedures, assuming you used ASME IX to qualify your original procedure is a little trickier; with regard to the filler metal change. QW-432 shows that SFA-5.18 fillers are all classified as F No. 6 as are all SFA-5.28 fillers HOWEVER, your suggested change to an ER-80S-NI1 would bump you from an A1 to an A10 (See QW-442) so Essential Variable QW-404.5 would be changed, thus making the answer to needing requalification of the WPS "Yes."

I'm not sure you really want to be using a nickel steel filler anyway in your application? Before I did anything, I would check the impact temperature and values of your PQR. What percentage of lateral expansion is specified?

P/S: If you DO need to requalify the WPS, you better look at each of the Supplimentary Essential Variables of QW-256 and QW-253. Send me a personal e-mail if you need some additional help.
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 09-30-2005 16:10
welderette; I don't mean this to sound disrespectful so please don't take it that way, but I'm concerned after reading your messages that there may be more problems with your WPS/PQR combination that are easily discussed in Forum. Do you have a scanner? Was thinking maybe you could scan and send these to me for review? If not, perhaps fax?
Parent - - By welderette (**) Date 09-30-2005 16:55
Jon, I do have a Scanner and Fax available. If you could E-Mail me your Fax# would probably be quickest. I appreciate your willingness to review this for me. Let me gather some things to send you. In the meantime my e-mail is drobinson@rci-group.com. Thanks so much. Deb
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 09-30-2005 19:21
Welderette; have sent you e-mail from my office address, haven't seen anything on the fax yet and am leaving here in about 1.5 hours. If you miss me here my personal e-mail address is in my profile. Hope things are looking better for you!
Parent - - By welderette (**) Date 09-30-2005 23:39
Jon, you are a jewel amongst men. Many thanks, Deb
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 10-01-2005 01:34
welderette;

When you've been in this business as long as I have, you'll find a few people like me... My very first Mentor was a guy by the name of Wally Urbick, others HATED him because he was Sooooo dogmatic, me, I worked with him and learned to know why he was the way he was... and learned to love him, in fact, when he died a few years back I cried like a baby!!!

In later years, I have a friend named Walt Sperko, he is amongst the most brilliant of men I have ever known, and makes people like me (no matter how much we THINK we know) realize we know very little about our trade, yet he is ALWAYS there to help me!!!

So, being an old man, if I have managed to help you in some very small way, believe me, the honor is all mine as you have the fire inside you, and it's my belief you too, will one day be one of "the greats!"
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 10-01-2005 09:31
Okay, my response was a little "sappy" but made it afrer my Friday evening meeting with Mr. Beam!!! ;-)

In any case, you are more than welcome for what help I may have been able to provide!
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / A-333 Gr. 6

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