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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Be honest
- - By sisishard1 Date 10-16-2005 16:34
I want to know is finding a job as a welder harder for me because i am a woman?
Parent - By dlmann (**) Date 10-16-2005 18:33
sisishard1:
Let me be the first to respond. This is the kind of thread that will generate 60 replies. I’ve only seen one woman welder during my short weld inspection career. She held her own with the rest of the workforce. She competed daily against 30 other welders in a structural steel fabrication plant down here in rural Alabama. Why she is a welder I could not guess, but as far as I know she’s still there (eight years by now). I assume she passed all the safety training required by the plant and passed her welding test. Seems to me she had no trouble getting hired.
Regards, Donnie Mann
Parent - By medicinehawk (**) Date 10-16-2005 21:57
If you can weld as well as your male co-workers, then there should be no reason why it is harder for you to get work. I guess it depends on what part of the country you are in as well. Here in New England, gender will actually help you as contractors want it known to clients that they employ women as well as minorities. I have only seen two (female)welders in my company, but both were as good as any male welder. My company has a few women pipe fitters too.
In this part of the country (non-union) it really only matters how well you can do your job. If you pass the welding tests, then you get hired, period. We have had a couple of female welders who said they could weld, but could not compentently pass the pipe (welding) test. They still would have hired them as apprentices (for less money) but they opted not to. Men have had the same thing happen (Bust-out) on the welding test..... They get sent back to the House.
Do you weld pipe?
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 10-16-2005 22:47
In field construction type trades, pass the tests, work. I have seen a few women welders. Two of them were more skilled than the average welders on the job.

I also was in a test booth next to one that was "allowed" to test. Her 1st words to me were "What do I do with this, we spot welded where I came from" She was referring to a 3/32" E7018 .

Between her processing in, radcon training, and 3 DAYS in the test booth before being busted out, she got over a week of union pipefitter journeyman pay. Would this have happened to a man ? Who Knows

Gerald

Parent - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 10-16-2005 23:04
If you were in Brazil, it would be EASIER for you to get a job than it would be for a man.
Brazilian construction companies and fabrication shops (tankage, platework, structural steel etc.) prefer female welders rather than male. They say women put more attention in what they're doing and are more accurate than men.
A word of warning, though! If you feel the temptation to come down here, be advised that wages are much lower than they are up there (provided you're American, which I don't know for sure because your data are hidden).
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
Parent - By dschlotz (***) Date 10-17-2005 00:03
If you were in my area and were skilled as a fitter and a welder, I could get you a job in a heart beat. I have only seen a few women willing to get dirty and accept the occasional burns and put up the conditions that prevail in welding construction. It would be a pleasant surprise to find a lady that is willing to work in a non traditional occupation.
Parent - By tool_man (*) Date 10-17-2005 01:22
I once repaired the frame of a 1946 model Piper super cub that was ground looped at the local airport.It had sustained significant damage to the tubing but, not a single weld was broken.At that time many of the welders at Piper Aircraft were women.They had been building planes througout WW2.I thought I was an excellent oxy-acetylene welder.My welds were good and passed inspection by an FAA certified A&p mechanic but,I have to say,my welds could not come close to the appearance and quality of the original welds on that aircraft.
Bottom line.....anyone who would not hire a welder because of her gender,is a fool that you (or I) would not want to work for anyway.
Sorry for the long winded reply.
Parent - By - Date 10-17-2005 02:51
Hey Sis,
All of the answers you've received have been great, but please let me present another scenario that is most observed in the Petro-Chemical industry along the Gulf Coast.

I most definitely believe in equality when hiring for positions if the person is capable of doing the job adequately. My wife owns a Goodyear Service Center in Dallas, Texas for the last 33 years. A woman in a usually man's position, especially owner of an automotive-related business is a challenge, but she has been very successful. As you probably know, the welding industry is normally considered a male dominated trade, whether we agree or not.

In the Perto-Chemical industry, for example, there is more involved than just being able to make acceptable welds. Some women, not all, but some, are not able physically to string their welding leads up the side of a 200ft. tower as easily as some men. The physical demands are different than just working in a shop where your physical strength is not as much required. Your question about it being harder to get a job as a welder just because you are a woman is a little ambiguous. There is no "yes" or "no" answer. In some areas of the welding trade, physical strength is a big asset. Working on a lay barge requires much more than just welding, even if you hired on as a welder. Is a woman physically as strong as a man? In some cases, yes. In some cases, no. Ship building is another example of physical demands on even a welder. Being a welder sometimes involves more than just welding...It depends on the job you are assigned to do. Honestly, I have seen women that are great welders, I taught welding at the University of Texas and the best welder I ever saw was a young woman in her early 20's, but when she got out in the workforce she realized that there is much more than just burning rods. Most women cannot stand up to the physical demands as easily as a man. I'm not saying ALL women, but the greater majority I've seen have more problems meeting the physical requirements than most men.

I will, with a degee of certainty, say that your chances will be harder to get a job as a welder as compared to a man. Again, it is not solely dependent on your ability to make good welds, but to do the averall job. Doing that is only a part of the whole scope of being a welder. If one can meet the physical demands, whether man or woman, and has the ability to make acceptable welds, then there should be no discrimination on gender, but that is not always the case.

I hope this does not sound prejudice, but to even wonder if it is harder to get a job as a welder because you are a woman should not be an issue. Being able to make acceptable welds is not a male/female issue. But, being able to do everything associated with the welding industry can be more of an issue. How else will you ever know if it is harder than to go out there and start applying for jobs and see if you can meet the demands of the job you are applying for.

Chuck
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 10-17-2005 12:07
Hi Sis,

The honest, straight answer is yes, it will be harder.
The reasons are the questions that go through the boss's mind in a lot of shops in a male dominated industry.
Is she tough enough?
Will she cry when she gets burned?
Will she expect special treatment?
Will she disrupt the flow in the shop by distracting the guys?
What kind of soap opera like scenario is going to happen when the guys start arguing over her affections (real or imagined)?
Is she going to sue me for sexual harrasment the first time some jerk pinches her butt, or uses the F word, or propositions her?

Now, before you guys start jumping down my throat, yes, I know for a fact that some women make great welders.
I also know that not all shops are the same, and that all boss's are not the same.
I also know that all women are not the same and that some can out perform most men any day.
I am not trying to discourage Sis from trying.
I am simply giving her the honest answer that she asked for, even though it's not politicly correct.
My opinions are based on scenarios that have occured at several different places I've worked along the Gulf Coast and in the South East US, and upon the overheard conversations between male co-workers that resulted.

Sis,
Even though you may face some adverse scenarios that men would not, don't be discouraged. There are many women out ther proving again that welding and fitting are not gender specific jobs. If it were not for all the females making ships and planes and everything else during WW2,
America would not have become the military and economic power that we are.

Tim
Parent - By QCCWI (***) Date 10-17-2005 12:43
The answer should be NO it is not harder.

"Will she cry when she gets burned?" Probably but I work in a shop full of "grown men" who cry when they get burned.The place I work goes through at least 3 boxes of band-aids a month. My 10 year old son get worse cuts and bruises but never sheds a tear but here at work I deal with adult babies.

"Will she disrupt the flow in the shop by distracting the guys?" Not if they want to continue their employment.I will tell the guys when she is hired "You have your work area and she has her's and she will stay out of your work area and you will stay out of her's.If the guys want to not work and watch her all day they better by some binoculars to help them watch her from the gate."

The language I am sure she has heard before.Last time I was around a female welder I was the one shocked by her language.(Guess I should have sued huh?)

Bottom line is the employess in the shop I work in get paid to work.I as management get paid to make sure the rules made by my company are enforced.If I let the guys bother a female welder then I am not doing the job I get paid to do so I should be the first one to get fired.

Maybe my 7 years in the U.S. Army taught me that women can do the same jobs as men sometime better than the men.
Parent - - By - Date 10-17-2005 13:37
Sis,
Again, as you can see, there is no definite "yes" or "no" answer. Everyone has their opinion. As I stated earlier, you can only go out there and present yourself and see if you are qulaified to do ALL aspects of the job. If you apply at enough places you will get pro and con reactions.
Parent - - By welderette (**) Date 10-17-2005 16:21
I was a pipewelder for 27 years. Is it harder for a woman to be a welder? Here's some advice that was given to me by a lady welder,who was the act to beat in our shop, the first year I welded for General Dynamics Electric Boat Division (Submarines) " If you are going to make it in this business girl, you have got to outweld them (the men). You must make your work beyond criticism." So I did. Always the welder is the first inspector; as a welder look at your work very critically. If there are any defects, correct them immediately before you leave the work. It is usually easy to get set up for weld test by any company hiring, its what happens with the test that is important. When you pass the test, that is the first step to gaining respect. You did not get hired on based on your say so that you are a welder, you passed the test. When you get out in the field or shop, you must be very professional. Once your co-workers come to realize that you have the skills required, that you produce good work, and that no one has to follow behind you fixing anything; that is where you will find acceptance. I have never had any troubles in my career steming from being a woman. I love the work, and many people helped me along the way treating me like a little sister, advising, coaching and best of all cheering me on as I took on new challenges. I have enjoyed many years of being "one of the boys" and recommend this profession for women.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-20-2005 07:46
Hi Welderette!
Did I read your response correctly when you wrote that you worked for EB? The reason I'm asking is because too once worked for The Best Damn Submarine Builder on the PLANET awhile ago - from 76 to 82, Small world!!! May I ask when you worked @ EB?

Talk about Woman Welders huh? As you know EB had some of the BEST WELDERS PERIOD that just so happened to be female in gender but, to say that the ones that worked at EB could'nt handle it without ever working with any of them - in itself is prejudging because, I KNOW that some of the ones I worked with were able to keep up with me, and other male counterparts and handle anything that was demanded of them outside of Electric Boat. Heck, some of the men that left EB to work elsewhere could'nt cut the mustard either!!!

All I know is that if a PERSON regardless of GENDER can prove themselves on the job then, they should be able to maintain that position for which they've earned honorably PERIOD!!!

The straight answer to your question Sis is: initially, YES... Why??? Because there are some individuals that may either be subconsciously prejudicial towards females when comes to construction work where more than one skill is usually necessary in order for one maintain their job position and rate of pay...

There are also some individuals that consciously are prejudicial towards females in the workplace, and this is REALITY but, if you're persistent in proving yourself to be worthy of the job then, YOU WILL EARN THE POSITION REGARDLESS of GENDER!!! So, PLEASE DO NOT BECOME DISCOURAGED!!! Instead, KEEP SHOWING THEM WHAT YOU ARE MADE OF!!!

I too have experienced some bias recently because my disability...
A little over eight years ago, I recieved the gift of life - an organ transplant (Liver)... After I recovered, naturally I attempted to renew my career as a welder/fabricator/technician/instructor... Once the subject of my health came up for discussion, I noticed some hesitancy or downright prejudice towards me in some of the interviews where these questions were asked!!! I actually felt like I was damaged goods at times when in reality, I was recycled goods because, I was persistent and eventually found work with people that did'nt pay attention to one's gender or one's disability... They only cared if you could perform the work that was expected of YOU - PERIOD!!!

I've worked @ every coast, in between them also, where there was work to be found, and there were women welder/fabricators that could always cut the MUSTARD in my book!!! Regardless of gender, there are good and lousy workers out there!!! The ones that are successful always keep their jobs and, the LOUSY ones always
"Bust - OUT" PERIOD!!! BE PERSISTENT!!! ALL THE BEST!!!

Respectfully,
SSBN727
Run Silent... Run Deep!!!

Parent - - By welderette (**) Date 10-20-2005 23:47
Hey SSBN 727, I've been wondering about you. the 727 is a dead give away. I worked at the Quonset Point Facility starting in 1976, High Bay 60. I always thought after I left there that those ARE the best craftsmen on the planet; and it is sad that they don't know this. I wouldn't have wanted to have trained anywhere else. When in doubt revert to Y09-J03 procedure, and it is better than they would expect!
Coincidentally my crew built the Aft Section of the very 1st Trident, the 727 Boat. I have been nose to nose with the hole for the propeller shaft, gouging in the hole. It is a small world indeed, especially in this business. Never kiss anybody good bye , as you will be seeing them down the road!
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-23-2005 06:00
Hi Welderette!

Somebody besides myself remembers the Y09-J03 procedure!!!

So, the sections you built were sent down via barge from Quonset Pt. to EB for us to assemble into Nuclear powered Submarines for the United States Navy - I know how proud you feel about being a part of building those vessels because, I feel the same!!!

Btw, The USS Ohio was the first Trident (SSBN726)... The USS Michigan (SSBN727) was the second... Now, I do'nt think they had the state's name or class of this type sub (being that it was the prototype) when you were building the sections so, that could've been the cause for confusion...

Anywho, It is my honor to correspond with you and I look foward to reading more!!!

Respectfully,
SSBN727
Run Silent... Run Deep!!!
Parent - - By gyadon (**) Date 10-17-2005 18:26
Contact your local union hall they have to maintain a certain number of minorities and your one!
Parent - - By - Date 10-17-2005 18:44
I just spoke to a very close friend who is a Business Agent for Local Union 211 in Houston (pipefitter's union) and he told me that there is no requirement for maintaining a certain number of minorities. There are 2 ways, according to him, to get into the Union. One is to be given the opportunity to buy a Union Book based upon education and experience already gathered in the trade. The other is to be accepted into Apprentice School which requires filling out an application and being accepted by the Board of that Union.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 10-17-2005 23:20
Just to put a little more light on the Union situation.

There are also many employers who operate closed union shops. Ford, General Motors, Boeing, several major airlines are examples. Many of these organizations do have hiring quotas or preferences that include various minorities. The Locals (union halls) have little or no control in hiring decisions in these situations. If a prospective employee meets the standard set by the company they are hired and given a journeyman card upon completion of in house probation. Sadly apprenticeships in the IAM (Machinist and Aerospace) and the IAW (Auto Workers) are virtually non existent these days. Journeymen pay more dues dollars.

None of the above commentary means as much as Welderett's advice. If you work harder than anybody else and never leave mistakes for others to fix, you won't have problems. In the end if the only problem you have is that you have to work a little harder to demonstrate your excellence, just remember, you will sleep soundly at night knowing you’re the best. The cream rises to the top :)

My experience has been in aerospace and military and my opinion is that the job market is wide open to qualified women and not just at the entry level or journey level. If there is a glass ceiling, it's far above where I have been.

Seems like the general tone here on this thread is encouraging and that is as it should be!


Parent - - By - Date 10-18-2005 01:15
Lawrence,
I agree with Welderette's view, too, but there is a big difference if one is applying for the Petro-Chemical industry. Welding is only part of the job requirement even when accepting a welder's role. You can be the very best welder in the world, but if that is all you can do, then you are in trouble. I was raised on the Gulf Coast and in all the refineries, and have seen many women that are great welders that could not do the other parts of the job required of them. Of course, I've seen men that couldn't, or didn't want to, do it either. Believe me, welding at Ford, General Motors, Boening, etc. is a different world than the Oil and Gas industry. I have belonged to the Union (Pipefitter's Local Union 211) for over 35 years. It is what put me through school. I now pay non-working dues, but I still am a member. I have seen women that can do the full job, but have also seen very good female welders that can't do all of it. It's just a fact. All I'm doing is presenting only one aspect of the welding industry. Whatever she chooses, I wish her the best of luck..
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 10-18-2005 01:47
Right on Chuck,

I wasn't disagreeing with your observations. Only shining a light on another aspect of the wide and diverse stage of Union labor. The union situation you describe, a strong apprenticeship managed by a union that puts out top performers that do work that others simply cannot do is the only thing that may yet save unionisim in the U.S.

I was an apprentice Iron worker in the early 80s, until I watched two coworkers take tragic falls inside a month. I got slower and slower and finally lost my nerve and could no longer walk a beam. You bet there are jobs out there where only a few can make the cut.

I've also been mentored by real european craftsmen who immigrated to the U.S after WW2. These guys served 15 year apprenticeships and had a depth of knowledge that's hard to imagine. Yet they worked at the same scale as somebody with 18 months of community college shop training. It doesn't sound fair, yet it is a great opportunity for a youngster to work beside one of these folks.

Sorry if I sounded disagreeable
Parent - By - Date 10-18-2005 13:18
Lawrence,
No, not at all..Your response was great. I didn't intend for it to sound like there was any disagreement. Bro., I agree with everything you said, and it was said with all sincerity. I think you and I both are just trying to let Sis know that there might be some rejudice out there, and maybe not. The bottom line is that we both wish her the best of luck. If her desire is as great as her ability, she can't help but succeed.
Parent - By stormee Date 10-26-2005 18:11
Hello. I know this is kind of late but just wanted to put my 2 cents in here. I am a female Welder/CWI/NDT Level 2 in PT,RT,MT,VT. I have welded for Boeing on the fuel cell domes for the Delta IV program as well as was foreWoman over a fab shop for about 5 years.
I am not here to ring my own bell but to say go for it. There will be some that you come across that will look at you and say "You know your going to get dirty right?" Or not call back. But if welding is what you truely want to do then go do it. It took me 3 different jobs to find the one that would truely accept me for an equal instead of a "girl" and I loved it.
Good Luck :)
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Be honest

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