Maganism poisioning??

By toxosh Date 11-05-2005 02:59

Is anyone experiencing side effects from welding rod fumes? Please read the article below:

Welding Rods/Manganese
As a welder, do you often wonder, “What dangers might be associated with my exposure to welding smoke? Can exposure to welding fumes be harmful to my health?” A recent study has revealed that welders can get Parkinson’s Disease 15 years earlier than those in the general population.
Traditionally, the biggest fear that welders had was that of being burned or blinded. Scientists are now finding that the fumes produced from using certain welding rods can be far more dangerous than other concerns, because the fumes can cause serious damage to the lungs and general health.
Welding is one of the most dangerous industrial jobs and the hazards go far beyond the traditional hazards. Dangers of welding include: fire safety, electric shock, compressed gases, toxic fumes, and personal protection of the eyes, hands, feet, and body.
Manganese is a toxin that destroys brain cells and it is a major concern for welders. Welding rods, electrodes and wire all contain manganese. During the welding process, the manganese vaporizes and can be inhaled.
Manganese is also a danger to those living near areas where welding is performed. It is contained in pesticides and fertilizers and may be released into the air and groundwater. If you work in or live near a factory where manganese metal is used or produced, you should be concerned about your level of exposure to manganese. Manganese affects the parts of the brain which transmit signals to other parts of the body and control body movements, emotions, and functions such as sleeping or speech.
Manganism is a disease that is linked to welding rod fumes and is caused by excessive exposure to manganese fumes or dust. It is associated with liver and kidney disease. Manganism is characterized by mental difficulties and the impairment of motor skills. Occupations commonly associated with such exposure include welders, pipe fitters, electrical workers, metal workers, pile drivers, glass manufacturers, plumbers, ironworkers, steelworkers, and railroad maintenance workers. Persons working in these fields should make sure that their work environments are well ventilated and that appropriate personal protection is available.
One study by Washington University concluded that a symptom of Manganism suffered by welders was, in actuality, Parkinson's Disease. Parkinson’s disease is a very serious neurological condition which may be totally disabling. Early symptoms of the disease include:
• weight fluctuations
• insomnia
• headaches
• tightness in facial muscles and muscular rigidity
• diminished motor skills and slurred or monotonous speech
• cramping in the legs and slowness of movement
• burning or tingling sensations

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 11-05-2005 04:06

Yeah, I'm aware of litigation ongoing on this matter, and all I can say is I have been involved in the welding field for 32 years now, including many years under the hood ~ something, someday is going to kill everyone reading this message; of course, I'm a smoker too so that'll probably get me before anything else, maybe I should sue the tobacco companies!

The bottom line is even if there's some truth to what you read in today's news, chances are the worry over the dribble is probably going to drive you mad before the fumes!

Lawyers are truly the undoing of America... My personal two cents!

Every trade on earth has its own set of perils, to me at least, welding is a field of choice, and I accept that it has its risks. Would you rather smell grease cooking at McDonalds all day?

Educating welders about the risks involved is okay, in fact it's the right thing to do, but where does the corporate bashing and class action lawsuits stop???

By Arcandflash (**)

Date 11-05-2005 15:21

In general continued exposure to fumes of any kind is not a good idea and of course some are way worse than others and some people are way more susceptable than others to the bad effects due to their genetic makeup.

If you want to minimize the risk then ensure you are welding in the so-called well-ventilated area and use breathing protection like a respirator. I know this isn't always possible or convenient but it's the way it is. I would also say the younger you are the more benefit you will gain by doing this and I think a lot of us older people who didn't give a darn about exposure to various chemicals and fumes in our younger, "invincible" days now wish we had been a little more careful.

Be sensible but don't get uptight about things like those stated in the post. The increased stress will do you in quicker!

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 11-05-2005 17:31

Amen to that brother! I think it's not that us oldtimers didn't give a darm or think we were invincible rather more the lack of awareness of the effects.

Beginning my career in the shipyards, I was exposed to a myriad of nasties. If I had one thing I would do differently, it would be to protect my hearing! At 51 years old, I am nearly deaf from not wearing proper ear protection. THAT, I DID know about but chose to ignore it and am definately paying the price now!

By toxosh Date 11-07-2005 01:11

What is so mind boggling to me is welders are dying every day from leukemia, cancer, non hodgkins and family dont know that they could do something about this to try and stop these companies from making products that will harm us! It is the solevants, paints,welding rods the list goes on and on. But the companies know this will harm us and keep producing because they make way to much money it out weights the cost of some one dying!!

By Arcandflash (**)

Date 11-07-2005 01:47

I certainly wouldn't dispute some of what you've said but on the other hand certain processes require nasty solvents, fluxes, metals etc and they are necessary to do the job.

Jon20013 also has a point that people used to be much less aware about the effects, especially long-term effects, of using many products.

The awarness and availability of information is far better today so it is up to the employers, employees and casual user to ensure they are taking the proper precautions when using these products. Unfortunately, you often need to be highly-trained to interpret the data so judge just how dangerous a certain product is.

By OSUtigger (**)

Date 11-07-2005 03:16

I have to agree with Arcandflash on this one. Yes there are dangers. Yes the companies know this. Is there any way around it? Yes. First scenario is to completely revamp the science upon which the industry is founded, and find a way to not use manganese. This means knocking out several of the major welding rod types and basically reverting back to only cellulistic rods, thereby limiting our ability to use high strength alloys in anything requiring welding. Option two is to make sure that your employers and employees and yourself obey the cautions written right on the box (for example, ventilate, respirators, take proper safety precautions in general). When I first heard of this issue I was dumbfounded. If we outlaw manganese in welding rods, how many people will die because the weld did not have enough strength or did not have the right properties? SEVERAL MORE than will die from misuse of the rod. Many valuable lives are lost everyday in car accidents, and the automakes know this. Does this mean that automobiles should be outawed?

I know there are people that will disagree with this in some way or another, and that is okay as long as they realize that all I am saying is that most of these "dangerous substances" are perfectly safe when used PROPERLY.

My $0.02.

gls

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 11-07-2005 10:19

gls and Arcandflash ; a standing ovation to your responses, well said! Have you ever wondered why we have so high of safety awareness nowadays compared to yesteryear? It's not a bad thing either, just need people who understand the problem(s) and know how to deal with them in a way that will protect workers as best as possible but without stopping industry.

By MikeLorrey Date 11-15-2005 18:51

If you don't know and accept that working an industrial job is going to expose you to potentially hazardous materials, you shouldn't do the work. Go back to college, get a degree in, say, basketweaving or marxist economics, sociology, or, heavens sake, law, where the only toxics are the absurd ideas floating around. If you can't suck it up and take it, go find something else to do. Or, better yet, get into sales.

By QCCWI

Date 11-15-2005 19:26

One more company that I nor the company that I work will buy anything from.
"Sales" I find it hard to believe that you could sell a dollar for a quarter.

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 11-15-2005 20:30

No need to worry, just another example of someone blowing off steam who apparently "can't suck it up and take it."

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 11-15-2005 21:16

I wonder how many times this issue has been brought up in the forum over the last few years? It seems when someone actually stops and reads an MSDS sheet attached with every can of rods, or roll of welding wire the question pops up in here. Been a problem for quite some time, but safety measures are in place if anyone will take the time to read them and follow the recommendations. No doubt placing a weld has many health risk potentials associated with it. Heat, molten metal, electricity(shock hazzards), light of various wave lengths, metal fumes, and many other airborne items that isn't good to breathe, but all of these hazards can be dealt with safely by using the proper gear. Just don't follow the examples of some of the heros on TV, because very few of them use the recommended protection. Hats off to the few TV shows that take a minute to point out the correct safety equipment for the job at hand.
John Wright

By CHGuilford (****)

Date 11-15-2005 22:18

John, now that you've mentioned the MSDS sheets--have you noticed that nearly everything causes cancer when you are in California?.

Chet

By Arcandflash (**)

Date 11-16-2005 00:27

I think the California warnings among others are a real problem. I don't know how many times I've heard somebody say, "It's not really that dangerous, their legal department just put it on the label in case of a suit.". I've thought the same myself. It is too bad that there can't be an understandable measure of the hazards but the topic isn't a simple one. People can't even agree that putting approved weed-killer on lawns is safe or unsafe.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 11-16-2005 05:33

I concurr Jon & JW!!!
Respectfully,
SSBN727
Run Silent... Run Deep!!!

P.S. On occasion, I've been told that I have "this glowing look about me"... Must be from being exposed to all of that radiation when I worked on those nuclear (No, it's not spelled "nuculir"!) submarines... Yeah, right!!!

By MBSims

Date 11-16-2005 03:43

Stop them from making products that harm us? An interesting suggestion. Let's not make any more welding rods, since there is a possibility that someone may die from an obscure disease. Let's see - no more welded cars, trucks, power plants, transmission line towers, refrigerators, stoves, construction equipment, sterilization equipment, refineries, food processing plants,... I'm not seeing where we'd be better off. But, wait - what happens when people still die from those diseases that are not welders? Maybe they're not just from welding then, huh? I haven't noticed that the numerous welders I know have been any more prone to certain diseases or illnesses than the nonwelders I know.

I agree with making sure folks are aware of the hazards involved in using welding rods, solvents, etc., know the proper protective equipment to use when handling them, and are required to follow the proper handling procedures. But, stopping companies from making any products that have any possible health hazards is not practical.

By billvanderhoof (****)

Date 11-16-2005 06:34

Heck- you couldn't even sell salt.
Bill

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 11-16-2005 13:08

Media exposure often leads people to believe something is worse than it really is; that is more widespread, more harmful. In actuality, the "cases" are probably few and far between with perhaps an inherent tendency to contract whatever disease may be being played out anyway.

By cas

Date 11-20-2005 01:12

the other day I woke up, got out of bed, slipped on the skid mark from yesterdays scivvies, hit my head on the night stand and knocked the lamp off, only to have the lamp fall busting the bulb on my knoggin, got a bit of a "zap" of 110 when the bulb popped, but the breaker popped too. went to the bathroom for damage control assesment, all was good other than the lump on my forehead, stepped in the shower and dropped the soap(not something to do if you've ever been to any of this countries fine penial correction facilities), droppped the shampoo and fell on butt; reaching for a hand hold to catch myself, i grabbed the shelf where i have my razor and sliced right thru to an artery. do i sue gillet, pantene, sylvania, or the taco shack down the street for making me leave the skid mark that started the whole fiasco?
maybe the state of california? ooo.. arnie!!
he's in charge isn't he, and got all that $$$$$$$$$from hollywood.
things that we have done in the past is our own ignorance, if we suffer from it, is it not still our own fault?
progress and industry will always prevail( there's more money in it and to back it up).
to protect ourselves the only frined we have is vigilance(not vigilantyism{sp?}) in our practices. at work i'm costantly reminding people to wear their safety glasses, ear plugs and other ppe. some get it some don't and even myself i forget sometimes(heat of the moment, i guess). and in the end some day someone may develope "the perfect work place and practices and person to work there". but for now, if you screw-up, the only person to blame in the end is yourself. even when an employer, manufact'r of products, training sup'r says this is the way to do it, in an industrial world, in a realistic world, if it don't seem safe and you get sick from doing it, unless there are chains binding you to it, isn't it still you'r own choice to handle, work with mat'ls that in certain cases have been found to be linked to things that will hurt you; isn't this still YOUR'E choice?
those that know, your job is to teach;
those that don't know,
your job is to learn.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 11-20-2005 12:59

LOL :)
John Wright

By MBSims

Date 11-20-2005 17:23

I think Fruit of the Loom is at fault here for not foreseeing that skid marks could occur on their product during reasonable use, therefore jeopardizing your safety and the safety of others.

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 11-21-2005 12:46

LMFAO!!!!