What standard are steel joist welds judged by? They are not subject to D1.1 standards according to SJI, but they seem to leave it up to the joist manufacturer. Even though AISC does not consider them structural steel, aren't joists a structural member? Are there no industry wide standard welding code for joists?
English being not my mother language, I'm not ashamed to make the following question: what exactly is a joist?
Thanks to all who'll bother to answer.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
The good
http://www.intelicad.com/Joist.jpg
The bad
http://www.vacekgroup.com/pics/joist-fire.jpg
Any of the wood, steel, or concrete beams set parallel from wall to wall or across or abutting girders to support a floor or ceiling.
From the welds I've seen on joists, it looks like they let anybody weld on them whether they can weld or not. Code or no code, I would be absolutely embarrassed to send out anything like the welding I've seen on joists. I know they slap them together pretty quickly, but the welding looks like bird droppings.
Goivanni:
http://www.hancockjoist.com/
http://www.omegajoists.com/index2.html
I have several guys that work for Hancock Joist in our AWS Section, I'll have to ask them what code they work to. I'm thinking probably D1.1 and D1.3?
John Wright
I have asked the local joists people and they and their publications say they weld to in house standards. Leaves a lot of room for interpretation. SJI will tell you that they do not follow D1.1.
In CA last week on a job site and saw horrible welds. Only been in one joist fabricator shop that I thought welds were of consistently good quality as may be judged by D1.1 for instance. Overall welds in many joists that I have seen would not be acceptable by D1.1. Profile and cleanliness of welds would be my main objections. Since joists are engineered differently, weld size and length is usually questionable in my mind also. Weld spatter and extra weld electrode wire is often found around welds. I would be fired for letting weld quality out of our shop that resembled what I often see on joists.
I may be wrong, but I believe that there is acceptance criteria in an SJI standard. I was once asked by the EOR to inspect some joists to AWS D1.1 because that is what they put into the specification. Well, the joist manufacturer fabricated them to SJI standards and were the typical horrible welds as most everyone else has experienced. When I questioned the QC they showed me an SJI document that had acceptance criteria for the welding. Sadly, the welds didn't even pass that criteria, which was fairly loose. Long story short, ALL of the joists were required to be reworked and the fabricator had a huge loss financially because they didn't read or follow the spec.
Chris
The Steel Joist Institute publishes their own welding standard. You have to be a manufacturer to belong to the organization. It is not an ANSI standard and there is no input from the end users or the general public. As you might guess, it is very slanted to their self interest and is more of a "performance" standard. An assembled open web joist is load tested and if it passes, all is good for another year.
Open web joists are considered to be a manufacturer product and not typically subject to inspection in the field.
Any inspector that has been involved with field erection has seen open web joists on the job site that look hidious. The joist manufactures will cry, scream, and stamp their feet saying that their product is not subject to field inspection. "Buyer beware" is an adage that must be taught to every "owner". You get what you pay for - sometimes!
Good luck - Al
I think I remember the gentleman at SJI that I spoke with telling me that they were close to releasing a new welding and a new paint standard since both these are close to 30 years old. The new ones are not listed on their site yet so I assume they have not been released.
I know when i worked for ironworkers in Alberta Canada
You needed CWB tickets to weld joists, So they must have considered them structural.
Gentlemen,
yesterday I've been at a tennis court here in Sao Paulo. The tennis court was covered by a roof made up of FRP corrugated panels, supported by joist beams. The beams were suported on joist columns. Of course, when the game was finished I observed the welds in the columns.
They (the welds) were very similar, or I should say identical, to the welds you see in bycicle frames. I deducted that they (the joist columns welds) were made by robot welding, like bycicle frames are.
The whole columns were hot dip galvanized and showed a pleasent aspect, including the welds, which I said were identical to those you see in bycicle frames.
Giovanni S. Crisi
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