ASME Section IX

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 03-29-2006 21:33

Ok code whizes

I'll try to make this clear

QW-255 chart is plain enough. A change in GMAW transfer mode is an essencial variable and if it changes the procedure needs to be qualified again.

What appears slightly unclear is this:
QW-409.2 A change from spray arc, globular arc, or pulsating arc to short circuiting arc or vice versa.

So if you change to from spray, glob or pulse to short circuit you requalify....... Or if you change from Short circuit to Spray, Glob or Pulse you change? Is that what they are saying?

What if you change from Spray to pulse? It does not seem clearly stated to me.

AWS D1.1 is clear that GMAW-pulse is a different process entirely... ASME is not so clear.

Furthermore
QW-409.11 A change in the power source from one model to another... This is essencial, Non-essencial...

The question behind this is, If one wishes to buy new power supplies and change from GMAW-spray to GMAW-pulse, is procedure qualification necessary according to ASME IX ?

By KAJUN1

Date 03-29-2006 23:32

YES

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 03-29-2006 23:52

Kajun

Thanks for the response.

What exactly in the code do you base it on?

Thats what I need to know

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 03-30-2006 00:19

Hello KAJUN1!!!

Excuse me but, is "YES" the answer for ALL of the three questions Lawrence asked in his query?

Respectfully,
SSBN727
Run Silent... Run Deep!!!

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 03-30-2006 10:22

Lawrence, I disagree with KAJUN. If you qualify in spray, you are also qualified to weld in pulse or globular but not short-circuiting and, if you qualify in short circuiting, you are not qualified for the other modes.

ASME IX does not really differentiate between spray and globular as can be seen they "lump" together GMAW and FCAW in their listing of process variables; (FCAW is considered globular by most people). Hope this helps.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 03-30-2006 10:36

Hi Larry, Jon20013!
Now I do'nt consider myself a code whiz by any stretch of my imagination but;
I CONCURR with jon20013!!!

I believe there was a similar thread regarding this type of query awhile back with a similar conclusion...

Respectfully,
SSBN727
Run Silent... Run Deep!!!

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 03-30-2006 12:26

Well this would save me a lot of time and the folks I'm helping out would save alot of money as I cannot do tensiles in house.

The bottom line in my interpretation is that GMAW-Spray and GMAW-Pulsed are the same *Process* in accordence with Section IX. Unlike D1.1 which defines them as different processes in the "power sources" section because of the CC/CV nature of pulse and the limitation of CC GMAW.

My read is as yours is Jon and Submariner, but I'm a process guy and am admittedly still a bit green at section IX. I was hoping to find some strong consensis before I moved on.

If anybody else reads this the same (or differently) please chime in on this rather ambiguous piece of code.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 03-30-2006 14:40

I also contacted Walt Sperko in hopes that he might lend me advice... which he did!

Part of what he said was this:
"ASME considers spray, globular and pulse to be interchangeable for qualification purposes."

I feel more confident now to go forward with putting new GMAW-P equipment into service without drafting and running new PQR's.

Thanks to everybody for the input

Lar

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 03-30-2006 16:43

I've worked closely with Walt for many years and it has proven to my benefit. I can't think of anyone who knows more about IX than Mr. Sperko!

By chall

Date 03-30-2006 12:39

The answer to the first question, as has already been stated is yes.

As for QW-409.11: That variable is not applicable to GMAW or FCAW. If you look at QW-255 (the applicable chart for GMAW & FCAW) that variable is not listed; so it's not applicable.

Charles.

By GRoberts (***)

Date 03-30-2006 14:38

I have to agree with most of the responses. Hopefully my two cents won't confuse the matter for you.

If you look at QW-255, as you were doing, it references QW-409.2, which states that a change in trasfer mode is an essential variable. However, unless you know QW-409.2 off the top of your head, the table itself doesn't say how it applies, so you have to go look at QW-409.2 to see what it says. I think that a lot of people get confused there. The table is just shorthand for what the paragraphs referenced address. They aren't actually addressing the variable or limitations in the table itself.

I also agree with those that said that only a change from or to short-circuit transfer from any other transfer mode is an essential variable, but changing among any other transfer modes besides short-circuit (including pulsed) can be done without requalification.

There are a lot of things that Section IX doesn't address, so you just have to know that if it isn't addressed, it isn't prohibited. So QW-409.11 isn't addressed in table WQ-255, so you could do anything you want with regards to power sources, and ASME IX wouldn't care (for GMAW). WQ-409.11 (as far as I can see) only applies to Stud welding.

By dlmann

Date 03-30-2006 15:05

This is just to state what has been said already. I look at spray arc, globular arc and pulsating arc as a group of one. Any change among this group does not require requalification. A change from this from this group to short circuiting arc requires requalification. To change short circuiting arc to any one of the group also requires requalification.

GRoberts makes a good point about QW-409.11 as a variable for QW-255. Not a reason to requalify.
Regards, Donnie Mann