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Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Fundamentals / Videos or training materials
- - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-17-2006 18:19
Here at work, I'm also involved with the safety, and with that comes training. We run our new hires through a pretty rigorous training before we turn them loose out on the shop floor. With all that said, has anyone seen a video instructing a rigger how to rig a beam, where the web is laying horizontal, and you need to turn the beam 90* and stand it on it's flange, and then roll it back to the opposite side of the web horizontal to the floor again? I keep showing pics that we've taken and placed in power point to show as a slide presentation, but I think a video would show how the chains react and where to place the chains and hooks, etc... better.
I've written emails to several safety video companies but everybody has jobsite specific videos and nothing adaptable for the shop, mainly because we work off of steel "saw horses"(for the lack of a better word, we call them tables).

Has anyone seen any videos produced like this?

edit: this may have fit better in the education forum, but anyway.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 08-17-2006 19:01
Hello John, you bring up a very good point with your description of working with beams. I myself have been in various shops and worked under different types of conditions where beam work has been handled in a variety of ways. Obviously the larger and heavier beams pose a challenge when you are trying to roll them to accomplish various tasks relative to layout, hole drilling, addition of connection plates, welding, etc. It almost sounds as if maybe you should don a video production hat and come up with some footage to get your point across(you may even end up with a second career). There are some beam glomers and beam clamps that are designed for those types of lifting purposes, that are commercially available and designed for the cases that you have described and then of course, as you described you can also rig a set of chains to accomplish the job. On smaller beams, I have seen a tool used that I would describe as a "beam turn", it is a piece of pipe, tubing, or other shape that is used as a handle with a plate welded to the end of it that has a series of slots cut out at various angles to the handle. It can be positioned to allow the user to slide the slot of the tool over the flange of the beam and roll it over (you have to use great care to make sure that when the beam rolls that you aren't in a pinch point as it goes over). You also mentioned metal saw horses, my experiences have been with many variations of that same basic scenario. Of course room is always an issue when you are trying to accomplish beam work, you never have enough. One of the most productive set-ups that I ever worked with on beam fabrication, was in a converted aircraft style hangar building. It had 80ft. door openings and was roughly 100ft. x 300ft. in length. We were able to set-up rails that were approximately 15 to 20ft. apart and about 40ft. long. On these rails we would bring the beams in and spread them out with enough space between them to allow for them to be rolled. You could then have a man working on making the layouts for holes and copes and plate locations, another man coming behind him to do the torch coping and grinding, another one to drill holes, yet another to tack on connection plates, etc. and then finish out with welding. This system wouldn't work for all types of beam fabrication, but for some it was definitely the ticket. The other nice thing about this particular set-up was having 3 CAT 30,000 lb. forklifts to move material. As you know John, most fab shops never have enough cranes and someone is always using the one that you need, when you need it. Please forgive me I got to rambling. Regards, Allan
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-17-2006 19:40
We do use plate grabs to spread out a lift of light weight beams on the fitters tables....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/jwright650/safety%20pics/MVC-008F.jpg

They are used to handle these light beams one at a time....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/jwright650/safety%20pics/MVC-007F.jpg

Here I staged this a minute or two ago to have something to show and talk about...Normally we use two chains with the hooks hooked in opposite directions of each other....
Here I staged this to show how we go about turning a beam .....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/jwright650/safety%20pics/MVC-009F.jpg

and here the beam is now sitting on the flanges...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/jwright650/safety%20pics/MVC-010F.jpg
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 08-17-2006 20:13
Hello again John, nice pictures. I know what you are trying to get across, many times it is tricky to find the correct center of gravity when you are trying to roll a particularly large beam and not shake all of the dust and cobwebs out of the rafters. I see the plate grabs that you were referring to. Do you ever have issues with them coming loose when the beams bounce or anything? Most of the ones that I have ever used for that purpose had an over-center lock to keep them from coming off unless you wanted them to. Good Topic, John. Regards, Allan
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-17-2006 20:43
These are 1 ton straight pull grabs and they are only used for spreading out a stack of beams that the shop expiditer has stacked at the end of the work table. These work only by have a straight pull on them to engage the cam that bites into th steel as it is pulled. We have only had them give us problems down in our paint department, the teeth on the cam gets full of paint and the painter has to wire brush them constantly to keep them clean. s far as the over the center type locks on the grabs, we have a 5 ton set that is used to move thick flanged columns and this set is made like the ones that you described.

The videos that I'm interested in need to show a person rigging, and turning the beam/column over in 90* increments, so that a new hire can see first hand what to expect as the beam/column is nearing the balance point and they don't let it get over center and flop down on the table or shock load the chains and hoist cable.<--bad for lifting equipment

General material handling videos always show someone moving a 3/8" x 4' x 8' sheet of plate and never show big sections like we use.
Parent - - By yorkiepap (***) Date 08-17-2006 20:43
Hey John,
Out of curiousity, does any company make a "rotisserie" system for the kind of work you do? I got to weld a car frame for a gent who has one in his classic car restoration shop. He calls me to work for him on occasion since he lost his welder to the Gulf area workforce. WOW....talk about convenience.......Denny
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-17-2006 20:52
On a camaro forum that I visit, several folks have used those to clean/media blast the underside of their cars and they are handy. They make some welding positioners, but I feel like the time it takes to load and unload really defeats any advantage they may offer. Another thing is we have way too many work tables to buy one for every table.
The biggest obstacle when turning some pieces are the full pen outriggers. When you have to position the beam/column with the outrigger pointing down to the floor, if the outrigger is very long you have to jack the beam/column way up in the air and then climb a step ladder to weld out that turn of the piece.

Typically, we lay it all out on the "B" face(web near side) with soap stone and then transfer the fitter's marks over to the other faces as needed, then fit up one face, turn, fit up the next face, turn, so on...then after the fitup inspector has given his OK dimensionally, they weld out the face that is facing up, turn, weld up the next face, turn, so on....

a video showing all of this turning would be great!
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 08-17-2006 22:09
A video sounds like a great idea John.  Unfortunately, I think you'll have to make one for yourself, which also would give you some control over what you want to show.  As we all know, some videos show how to do something right while something else is being done wrong (such as not having proper PPE).  I'll bet some company exec must have a camcorder.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-18-2006 19:47
I know what you mean about choosing the content or being in control of the content. We had a photographer come in to take some pictures for us of the men working and out of those pictures we were to choose one to be placed on a Safety Incentive T-shirt to be awarded to the men for winning safety contests throughout the year.

One of the best pictures was of our beamline operator and this guy was grinding the mill's hot saw burr off the leading edge of a column that he was about to punch so that the holes would be punched accurately. He didn't think to wear his full face shield(which is a safety violation in our shop). Uggh! 
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-19-2006 10:55
I figure I should probably go the route that seems to be my only option at this point to make sure that I cover the material that I need to convey to our employees, and that is to produce our own job specific video.

Now the real question.....what format(mpg, avi...etc) is best suited for decent video quality and still keep the electronic file to a manageable file size where it can be emailed when necessary?
Parent - By yorkiepap (***) Date 08-18-2006 01:41
Thanks for the education John. When I look at the photos you submit, I am in awe at the size. I never worked in that kind of arena where the material is so massive. I am impressed. You provide wonderful educational material to this forum....Denny
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 08-19-2006 02:16 Edited 08-19-2006 02:26
Hi JW!

Here's a site you might want to take a look at that imght help:
http://safety.1800inet.com/product.php/name/rigging_safety_booklet/products_id/3928?twss=8a32404e0c13ca4bb8f57ba5bd5b782f

This is their homepage, and they do list a workplace rigging safety video, and rigging safety workbook to use for training purposes. Take a good look at the whole site because who knows, you might find what you're looking for in one of the other subjects listed also. You might want to look under crane safety & hoist safety training in the above site also. At the very least, it'll give you some idea's on making your own training materials.

Respectfully,
SSBN727
Run Silent... Run Deep but, not too Deep to lose control of the load you're lifting!!!
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-19-2006 02:28
Thanks for the link SS,
I will give that a look-thru and see what all is there. :-)
Parent - By turbo38t (*) Date 10-05-2006 01:08
I agree , those plate grabs are nice.....but keep clear if you want to pick something up with them in the horizontal position........they are headaches waiting to happen.........I use on eall the time but I make sire to stand back when using the crane........I use the chain method as shown above to flip beams.........works great.....just make surte the surface you are working on is stable. Dave
Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Fundamentals / Videos or training materials

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