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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Repair of Pan (earthmover) collar ears/frame
- - By tmatthews3rd Date 02-25-2007 03:14
Anyone with experience in a longlasting welding process for welding back "collar ears" to the cast steel frame?  My cousin had a pan's collar break where both ears attach to the frame (which appears to be cast steel).  The collar is similar to a universal joint allowing motion in all directions and attaches the cab/front engine to attach to the scoop/rear engine.  Another owner on pans for 30+ years has made such repairs, but says none have ever lasted more than a year due to the stresses put on this area.

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Parent - - By darren (***) Date 02-26-2007 00:37
as there is area specific slang for all types of machinery, tools and almost everything, i have no idea what your talking about. If you could post some pictures and do a spark test on the metal to be welded perhaps even photograph the sparks from the test you possibly will get the help you need. there is a lot of help within this forum but we will need more info to be any help.
looking forward to the new info
Parent - - By tmatthews3rd Date 02-26-2007 01:58
Hope the photos help.  Can do the spark test, but will need to set up to prevent fire.  One of the photos shows a hole near the broken ear (suppose it's designed for strength reasons).  The hole leads to a cavity that allows the collection of oil, grease and dirt, probably several gallons worth.  If the owner decides to attempt a repair, there will be several hours involved in removing hydraulic lines and steam cleaning the cavity of the grease.  Anyway, thanks.
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 02-26-2007 09:37
i think that contacting terex directly and asking if they have a repair procedure already in place would be the first step. I realize by your initial post this is family so you want to be as cost effective as possible. No matter how you slice it , that is a major job to repair correctly

my solution would be a complete disassembling of the area and part so as to take it through the proper heating and cooling procedures, as well as a consultation from your consumables supplier. perhaps some of the other guys could suggest something different.
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 02-26-2007 14:30
A big hello from downunder,
I didn't realise Terex were worldwide. In Australia they are huge in the selling/supply of heavy earthmoving machinery but they dont actually make anything themselves.
A lot of the very big excavators they were supplying to the local coal mining industry were O&K (German) and when you needed technical info it was non-existant.
Terex Australia hired me to qualify 6 welding procedures because they couldn't get anything out of the OEM and it was becoming as you say, weld it , repair it, weld it , repair it.
The procedures that I qualified were issued to all Terex reps in Australia, New Zealand and Indonesia to try and ensure that all weld repairs on Terex machines were carried out with some sort of uniformity.
The company I was working for basically did nothing but crack repairs on heavy earthmoving equipment. The booms on the majority of machines all around the world are very similar in composition and the recommended consumable is E71-T1 for FCAW and E7018 for SMAW.
What is critical is preheat, minimum 100 degrees C for work on booms.
There is a lot more info I would like to post but I have had a bit to drink and think it is prudent if I retire (sleezing off to bed)
Send me an email if you would like any more info,
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 02-26-2007 22:10 Edited 02-26-2007 22:13
there you have it another point for this forum, shane is obviously the go to guy. whenever welding cast steel, or forged i try to use a 7018 rod with some nickel in it (1 to 2%). i personally think that the arctec 223 is the best all around rod out there for maintenance on equipment. cronotron is also a good product for maintainence either company have some really good rod for just your situation.
awsome pics i might add tommy
Parent - - By tmatthews3rd Date 02-27-2007 01:53
Darren and Shane, thanks to both.  You are right about Terex - no response from them.  My cousin was going to sideline this Terex for spare parts for the other 15 scrapers he runs.  I will let him know the possibility of repairing with with the rods suggested (w/preheat).  I suppose he needs to decide the cost benefit of repair vs finding another at low cost which he seems to do very well.  I would like to try the repair though to see how long it will last though.  If so I will let you know how it goes.  (Took awhile to figure out how to downsize those pics-each were over 2mb each)  Thanks again.
Parent - By Bill M (***) Date 02-27-2007 15:27
If you pursue the weld repair, you should invest a few bucks and take a drilling sample to a met lab and find out exactly what mat'l it is to come up with a complete weld repair.  We have repaired Bucyrus steel casting componants and were required to use an AWS E110T5-K4 flux cored wire.  Are "both ears" required to be in-line?  The bore geometry may not survive the high preheat, post weld stress relieving, and the overall heat of the weld repairs.  You may have to weld overlay and line bore after the weld repair.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-27-2007 17:40
A photo is worth a thousand words.

It looks like the ears have been welded before. "Weld, crack, and repair" as stated by someone more eloquent than me.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 02-28-2007 13:02
One thing we have a major problem with here in Australia is people who have no understanding of metallurgy making decisions on welding earthmoving equipment.
If you can't get a welding procedure from the OEM and you don't have a WPS of your own don't expect to have much success with your repairs.
The biggest mistake is to think that by using a higher tensile rod (E8018,9018,11018) it is going to give you a stronger weld.The weld will be be stronger but it is not necessarily more sound. Excavator booms etc require some ductility in the metal so by making the weld metal a lot stronger you are losing ductility and that has a major impact on cracking.
The aim is to match the weld metal with the parent metal as close as possible and E 70XX exceeds the requirements of the majority of earthmoving equipment materials.
Hope that helps,
Parent - By RonG (****) Date 02-28-2007 18:01
From the photos it appears the past repairs were carried out in place. I would say you need to separate the tractor from the can and replace a lot of material. Put the weld repairs somewhere they can be reinforced.

All old weld and damaged metal removed and joints well prepped.

The welding should be done under ideal circumstances (and not in the rain) to get the best quality weld attainable.

The repair would need to be PWHT (Stress Relieved) to regain some of the ductile properties.
Parent - By makeithot (***) Date 02-28-2007 19:34
I have to agree with shane to some extent. Useing fancy rods is not the solution to the problem. I have in the past repaired a noumber of machines with these same problems and for the most part you are working with cast steel. I would most often use a pre-heat of 750 degrees f and then weld with E7018 that have been stored in an oven. As of yet I haven't had any complaints or re-welds. That machine looks like a gold mine though because as soon as you fix one crack you are sure to find another. How much money does your cousin have .
Parent - By jneilson (*) Date 03-01-2007 14:01
The company I work for builds equipment like this. The first thing I would do is clean the area your going to weld really good and sandblast or grind all the paint off. I'd put a 1/2"+ bevel on the collar where it contacts the cast part, then heat it with a torch. It looks like you'll need atleast 1" welds all around.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Repair of Pan (earthmover) collar ears/frame

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