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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / FCAW-G O2 at 2% vs 5%
- - By hogan (****) Date 04-02-2007 17:35
i was looking for input on welding dual shield at 2% o2 verses 5%. pross and cons, and why one is perfered over the other by yourself.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 04-02-2007 18:00
I would like to hear something on this one too.

All the stuff I've ever used has manufacture recommended either 75ar/25Co2  or Co2 100%.  Even for stainless FCAW
Parent - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 04-02-2007 18:06
We went from 100% Co2 to the 75/25 ArCo2 about 6 months ago.  We found it easier to qualify our "less skilled" welders, and reduced spatter.  Also, it falls in line with all of the manufactures suggested parameters, making almost everything pre-qual WPS.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 04-02-2007 18:09
I would think that any difference chemically would be associated with oxidation potential (especially in comparison with 100% CO2) and alloy recovery or lack thereof.
But I would ask, what the thought process behind going to higher Ar mixes is. Wouldn't it be more expensive?
Is it alloy recovery that is at issue?
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-02-2007 19:27
Hello All, in my past experiences with the various gas-shielded flux-cored wires 100% CO2 was the fore-runner to accepted shielding gas, then there was the introduction of 75% Ar/ 25% CO2 in some instances, and as of late ESAB has a wire that is designed to be used with 90% Ar/10% CO2. Some of these wires are 100% CO2 only, some are 75% Ar/25% CO2 only, some are either the 75% Ar/25% CO2 or 100% CO2, and now there is the ESAB wire that is designed to be run on the 90% Ar/10% CO2. There may also be others of which I am not aware of yet.
     With all of these wires, there are the claims of the manufacturers as to their specific benefits and performance capabilities. Certainly 100% CO2 shielded wires will be cheaper to run than Argon mixed shielded ones, strictly looking at gas cost. Yet, maybe the clean-up associated with the straight CO2 welding outweighs the additional shielding gas cost. Similarly, there is a possibility that the performance characteristics of the finished weld CAN be met by a particular wire that utilizes the Argon mixed gas wire that CANNOT be met with a 100% CO2 shielded wire.
     In the case of the ESAB wire that I read about, they claim a considerable increase in travel speed and metal deposition on vertical fillets using their wire that shields with 90% Ar/10% CO2. In some instances, if this is true, a given fabrication or welding scenario might justify the additional cost of gas and even a more expensive electrode.
     The bottom line with any wire/gas combination is to have a good appeal for the welders, the proper finished weld performance, and when all the numbers are crunched to have the best dollar to weld laid down ratio. Just my $.02 Regards, aevald
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 04-02-2007 19:51
sorry if the question seemed odd. it's monday. i was trying to ask about GMAW Ar98% 02 2% vs Ar95% 5% 02 2%
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 04-02-2007 20:05
Hogan,
I think your answer was sorta hidden in there. You will see less energy into the weld with greater Ar, which is probably what is responsible for ESAB's claim for greater deposition in verticals. You will also see greater alloy recovery, which may (or may not) influence your mechanicals, which is also why ESAB may feel justified in claiming a special 90/10 mix wire. These special wires, I believe, all center around  the idea of what the carbon and oxygen are doing. More oxidizing potential in the gas (additions of CO2 and O2) needs more deoxidizers for example. You don't want the oxygen making oxides of your alloying Ti, Mn, etc.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 04-02-2007 20:07
Hello hogan, there may be some very suttle differences between the welds that you will see with 98/2 versus the trimix 95/5/2 for the GMAW process. I believe a lot of it has to do with gas supplier hype and trying to sell you on a new and improved method. My experience with these two different gases shows very little difference unless you are possible running welds in the short circuiting range of GMAW and even then it is a minimal difference. I believe I would take a close look at the cost differences and the appeal of the gases to your welders and then make your call. Just my $.02 Regards, aevald
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / FCAW-G O2 at 2% vs 5%

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