Ladies...

By Cgregory (**)

Date 04-17-2007 16:10

I'm curious myself.

-- Christine

By fbrieden (***)

Date 04-17-2007 16:28

That's assault as far as I'm concerned! He should have been reported to his supervisor.

By rebekah (**)

Date 04-17-2007 17:27

Geez man, if that was assault then I would be down at the precinct filing paperwork all the time! Things like this happen more times than you would think and like I said alot of the times the guy doesnt think he is doing anything except expressing admiration. That's why I was curious what other ladies thought and how they deal with it. Ladies?

By Cgregory (**)

Date 04-17-2007 19:19

What you're discussing is well beyond what I've encountered, so honestly I'm not sure how I'd deal with it. That's why I'm hoping to hear from others here.

-- Christine

By devo

Date 04-17-2007 19:23

This isn't a reply to your question, but among my many talents, I like to knit. So when I, a 6'3" guy with a big beard comes walking in to the yarn shop, I get a whole lot of funny looks. The nice ladies usually are reluctant to approach me, but once I start talking like a knitter, they usually relax.

By billvanderhoof (****)

Date 04-19-2007 05:44

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69799427@N00/sets/491625/
Refers to a book by Rosy Grier on needlepoint. Apparently an interest aquired to while away the time spent in airplanes traveling between pro football games in which he participated as one of the better defensive tackles of all time. 6'3" 300 pounds, I don't think many called him a sissy.
Bill

By chuck meadows (***)

Date 04-17-2007 23:20

Rebekah,
Please don't take this too serious, but be happy you are pretty much accepted in a "male dominated profession." What kind of ridicule do you think a male would get if he tried to try out for the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders, a "female dominated profession." Is equality really equal?

By Sourdough (****)

Date 04-18-2007 00:12

Some people are socially retarded, plain and simple. Any good person - male or female- has a certain couth in those situations. You can guage a persons social IQ when they are placed in those circumstances. Respect is kind of an operative issue here - that'll be five bucks please!

Maybe you should have kicked him in the jewels, I don't know......

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 04-18-2007 03:43

"Knights in White Satin... Never reaching the end..."
like my pal Billy Joel says at the end of his concerts "Good night everyone and remember!!! Don't take any s@#t from anyone!!!" So let that be your Creed Ladies!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

By rebekah (**)

Date 04-18-2007 17:10

Chuck

I guess you'd have to ask the President that question--Bush lettered in cheerleading at Andover and Yale. The sexualization of cheerleading Dallas cowboy-style is a relatively recent phenomenom. There are often male cheerleaders on the squads to do the heavy lifting and yelling--they just dont get the airtime that the short skirts do.

How do you insert the smiley faces?! Please insert one here: ______

Rebekah

By chuck meadows (***)

Date 04-19-2007 03:21 Edited 04-19-2007 03:26

Rebekah,
I was joking with you. The best welder I had when I taught advanced welding at UT-Austin (you are very familiar with that) was a female. I am an advocate of equality, but as I said, does that equate to being equal?? No, not in most cases.. Comparing Pres. Bush to a Dallas Cowboy cheerleader is an insult...LOL..There are ZERO male cheerleaders in the pro football league, which is more watched than colleges..Just a fact...LOL..Why??Because most women (and I say MOST women) look better in halter tops and tight shorts than most men).

By ross

Date 04-19-2007 20:44

To make smiley, just type a colon : immediately followed by a right parenthesis )

Hit preview before you post to see the effect. The server makes it into a :)

See the "Help" menu for more emoticons.

By Cgregory (**)

Date 04-18-2007 15:30

Here's a relevant article about women entering the welding profession:

http://www.gmtoday.com/news/local_stories/2007/April_07/04172007_09.asp

By rebekah (**)

Date 04-18-2007 17:57

Great article Christine.

I was hoping for a dialogue between some women welders...there are 33,000 out there somewhere, according to the article. I guess they arent on the forum. Which is something that AWS might look into.

The dearth of young people going into welding could be addressed by removing the stigma of women going into welding. I know when I started welding at 19 I was not encouraged at all. In fact, my instructor told me I was wasting his time, with that attitude and those of the (young horny college) students--I wasnt about to go into the Industry. I cant tell you how many times I have been told that a womans place is in the kitchen--my family included. I am lucky to have found this job, where I work with a woman who has been welding for 25 years (20 at this facility) and in a research/university environment where all the engineering geeks are so freaked out by any social contact, I dont have to worry about negative responses by them!

But I am definitely not looking for some pity party or anything, just looking to see what other people thought about the instance. Sourdough was right on when he said it was a respect issue. I am sure that particular gentleman wasnt one of the enlightened members of our society that actually recognize that all people are deserving of respect until proven otherwise. I remember an article I read in the paper recently about the death of civility being the downfall of our society.

But on the jewels issue, I am beyond the age where I could do that (speaking of civility) and get away with it but, man, is it tempting sometimes. And Devo, your moniker makes me think of the Devo from the movie FRIDAY sitting down and knitting which is a great visual. I am also a blacksmith and when I go to conferences I joke that I left the beard, overalls and belly at home--I should go one time dressed like that, that would be hilarious.

Thanks for the input so far.

Rebekah

By Cgregory (**)

Date 04-18-2007 18:22

I definitely agree that we need more women welders on this forum, and also, I know that AWS is taking active steps to encourage women to enter welding. So that's two positive steps. And I'm hoping that when women read or hear about other women entering the welding professions, we'll gain still more welders.

To answer your original question, I usually deal with these sorts of things by telling jokes, but I think I've been seeing a different level of this.

-- Christine

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 04-19-2007 01:35

So when are you going to learn how to weld Christine?

Respectfully,
Henry

By Cgregory (**)

Date 04-19-2007 14:33

As soon as the next welding class here starts up :) In the meantime, I'll just stick to my little baby soldering iron :)

-- Christine

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 04-19-2007 14:44

I've got a table open this coming week, just awaiting a new student ;-)

I'm filling out welding certificates this morning for my last two students. Last week, I had one of the engineers who is our "engineer-in-training" come over and learn to weld fillet welds for a day and he had never struck an arc before. We wanted him to gain an appreciation for what our shop guys do all day. BTW, He was welding nice fillet welds by the end of the day, even graduated him on to the E7018 from the E7028. Hopefully he will now think about joint configurations before he puts together an impossible design.

By rebekah (**)

Date 04-19-2007 15:04

John

Training engineers to weld! You just might be my new hero!!!

Rebekah

By eekpod

Date 04-20-2007 23:14

John, that's great, now can you teach detailers to draw properly next? I can't believe the amount of mistakes I deal w/ everyday on the drawings. Chris

By billvanderhoof (****)

Date 04-25-2007 04:35

But women do belong in the kitchen- as plumbers, carpenters, tilesetters... and as homemakers if they desire.

I sympathise with you in your first post (my daughter is a fireman and she has met her share of asses especially in the beginning, although she is now well accepted, proven by fire you could say). I also sympathise with the owner of the hardware store. That employee will drive away more customers than just you and if it was my store he would have been outside before you were. I suppose he greets a farmer with "gee you smell like cow poo".

Perhaps some of these asses should contemplate that without the women who built the planes and boats and so forth (many of them welders) World War II might have had a different outcome.

Bill

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 04-25-2007 08:02

Hey Bill!

Yes Sir! I believe awhile back, there was a thread or two here that covered many of the contributions women made in keeping "The Arsenal of Democracy" or was it Freedom, going while the men went off to fight in WWII.

Respectfully,
Henry

By rebekah (**)

Date 04-25-2007 16:53

Hey Ya'll

My maternal grandmother was one of those that stepped up in WWII--worked in a munitions factory--so I guess it runs in the gene pool. Interesting, though, how so many of them went right back to the house after the war was over--I guess the culture wasnt quite ready yet. That is what she did and she never did want to talk about her time in the factories--what I know came from my mother. I think from my grandmother's viewpoint it wasn't the best of times. A great aunt I have, though, never went back and kept working in the "man's world". There are so many women from that generation that chose not to marry--and have the prerequiste family--opting instead to stay spinsters so they could travel and be independant. I really respect those women, even if they never fought to do a "man's job," they chose what in those days was a "man's life".

Oh and Bill--I do all that other stuff in the kitchen as well! My husband and I live on what might be called a "homestead" in a wee bitty cabin and went for a long time without such amenities as running water, insulation or electricity. I used to boil water on the gas stove, carry it to wash tubs in buckets and wash the dishes under the trees. Needless to say, I got sick of that after a while and built a counter with a double sink with hot and cold running water and a spray thingy! Anyways, you get a woman annoyed enough and she will hook up the water, put up the insulation and run the electricity--so life in our cabin is a bit more "civilized" these days ;-).

Kudos to your daughter. Any one whose job it is to fight the fires I might set one day I good by me.

Rebekah

By Bob Garner (***)

Date 04-25-2007 17:57

I just finished a construction project modifying bus barns in Seattle. There was a woman carpenter on the formwork crew and the crew all got along like they were brothers and sisters. I noted a strong respect for each other among the crew and I think that was everything.

When I went to engineering school, we had to learn how to do rudimentary welding, machining, even make sand castings. How can you design something if you don't know how it's made?

G'luck,

Bob

By CWI555

Date 04-26-2007 01:45

Bill /Henry,

Both good points. Someone had to put the planes, bombs, and machinery together. Not to mention all the other logistical needs of an armed forces flying, floating, rolling and afoot. The majority of these women lost loved ones in the war parrallel with trying to mantain the war machine. It's really easy to get yourself killed in a war. To live with such a loss and keep producing, thats another story. You both make a very valid point.

Regards,
Gerald

By MDG Custom Weld (***)

Date 04-26-2007 17:12

I think this thread really shows how much this is a male dominated industry. Just looking at all of the people that posted, only 2 are ladies. Rebekak and Christine, I can't imagine how hard it really is some days to deal with the crap some people give. I have a son and daughter that are still young (3&1). My son "works" in the shop every change he gets and I really enjoy it. Now that little sis is starting to walk, my wife and I joke that he'll probably go on and loose interest, and she is going to be our little welder. I will give her every chance and the guidance that she wants, and seeing you gals here just reinforces that even more!!

By Jenn

Date 06-23-2008 01:59

AHEMMMM , Jenn is a lady too thank you!!!

By panochapower Date 06-21-2008 22:57

the world's full of ass. some of it's good... some of it's not so good. ;)

female checking in.

By rick harnish (***)

Date 06-23-2008 05:24

Now THAT is a sweet username! Good thinking! Ha! :)

By Local14 (*)

Date 05-04-2007 17:07

I'm 17 and in the welding class at our vocational school. Actually I have to sessions of it. I love welding, its what my father and brother did, but sometimes the guys get to me. Sure some of them are really nice but other times they are very typical and think my place is behind a desk somewhere. I got more slack for being a girl in my Diesel Mechanics class, but come on. Women can do just about anything a man can! (I say this because I've never seen a woman pull a fire truck...) So I can just imagine the crap I'm going to get when I join the Union in a year or two. But my dad says once you earn their respect, you're like family and they'll go out of their way to make sure THEY'RE the ONLY ones who pick on you. I guess we'll see huh? Nice to see other women out there. :)

By aevald

Date 05-04-2007 18:17

Hello Local14, the way you are received can go many different ways, I mean that, geographical location, economy, past histories, and a ton of other issues can come into play. Your dad gave you some very wise and inciteful advice. Regardless of your gender, you have to earn respect through your actions, once you have shown that you are capable of these things it is very likely that you WILL be treated like family and respected as your knowledge, capabilities, and actions dictate.
I have taught welding for 17 years and in that time I have had 100 or more female students, attitude is everything when you are looking to be successful, of the females that I have taught, the majority have gone on to have successful careers in welding or related trades. At this moment in time you may feel out of place or have other negative vibes about being in your welding class, consider that this isn't always the way that it is going to be. Those types of things change like the weather. Many of the gals that have gone through my classes have gone out and gotten work, sometimes they were having a real hard time with particular situations. I would see them again some time later and they would tell me of making a job change and how everything had turned completely around and they couldn't even think about doing anything else. So just know that there is a place for you out there and don't quit striving to make that place for yourself. Regards, aevald

By Local14 (*)

Date 05-04-2007 18:55

Aevald,

I realize that things change outside of high school. Guys grow up....kind of. hehe and I'm really excited to get into the work force and out of high school and in this area, as long as I prove myself on my own skills and not on my fathers, I'll go everywhere I want!!! Thanks for the advice!!!

By aevald

Date 05-04-2007 19:05

Hello again Local14, just wanted to add one more little bit after reading your reply. One of my sons works at a fab shop in our area, my name may have helped get him in the door for a chance, but his skills and work ethic and other characteristics have made him the man that he is. Don't discount the asset that your father can be to you, MAKE HIM PROUD, that's the sort of thing that parents live for. You've got a great attitude, keep it up! Best regards, aevald

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 05-10-2007 10:12

hmmm....

off topic a bit but I am scared of women welders

Why?

Better natural balance (tuff position work) (and one foot tig with foot pedal)
Smaller hands
Better dexterity with hands

That threatens my cushy ass job welding jewlry in the aircraft industry!!!!!!!!

My Daughter wants to weld for a living....I love her to death...she is always willing to get dirty with dad to get somthing done.

By rebekah (**)

Date 05-10-2007 15:10

Hey Local 14

Great to hear about your experiences. It is wonderful that you have your father and brother to support you in your efforts. Like aevald said, dont worry if his good name gets you through the door, after all, it's your name too and sounds like you inherited more than just a name from your old man!

I never went the union route, I got pulled by other roads, but it sounds like you might have two families that support you eventually. To be seen as a sister/daughter more than a possible conquest is really important--to be seen as a respected talented individual is even more so.

What you said about the guys growing up, some of them never learn to respect women, but they learn the rules of engagement better which makes for an easier relationship. There is one guy that gave another woman trouble at this job 20 years ago. He egged another younger guy on to disrespect her to the point of the young guy being fired for sexual harrassment. The older guy is still here and I can tell he still thinks the same thoughts but knows better than to act on them--hes 50. Some guys never really get it.

Not to discourage you though, there are alot of great guys out there. In fact, in the scenario I mentioned, the person who brought the sexual harrassment charges against the young guy was a man who witnessed what was going on. He supported my coworker through the case--she was just resigned to it and was afraid to rock the boat lest she lose her position. So find the good ones, ignore and confront the bad ones and lean on your support network--family #1 and union family #2.

And for the guys, really it's in your hands to make woman more accepted and willing to come to the profession. Next time you are around a woman who has to bend to pick up a tool, watch what you are thinking. If you wouldnt think the same thoughts about Plumber Bob when he drops his wrench, you might need to reasses your opinions.

Sorry, didnt mean to get preachy.

Reb

By beamwauker Date 05-19-2007 02:55

ive got no problem with women in work force. just the ones that will play it up but most ive come across seem better than men especially at controls of equipment like a crane. women tend to be more meticulous and detail oriented and i respect them. enough of my blah blah blah, but women should be encouraged to do any occupation they please. my .02

By TheBlackWidow (*)

Date 05-26-2007 11:51

I love being a Women in the Trades and all the Bull that sometimes goes along w it LOL
Im 33 and just Graduated welding school w honers WooHOOO was working construction for as long time welding with no fundamentals in the background of what welding really was and not getting the pay cause i wasn't Certed !! So i went to school Fell in Love w a Rod and Arc and a Dance of a molten puddle and couldn't dream of going day with out Burning rods !!
~Black Widow Welding~what a weld i weave !!!! : )

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 05-26-2007 20:15

ISCHCABIBBLE!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

By brightblue (**)

Date 06-11-2008 13:28

Bumping an old thread but didn't want to start a new one.

I can't comment on the welding field as I'm not there, yet. But I have been on construction sites before. Once upon a time I worked as a masons tender.

Only once in a while did I hear some off-color remark but found I rarely had to shoot back, because it was the other guys who would shut the smartalec up.
IOW, instead of giving such a person any idea they supported their disrespect, they did quite the opposite and cold shouldered him.
The guys I worked with by and large didn't treat me unfairly or with disrespect in part probably because I was covered in cement just like them, ran the mixer, cut
brick, and threw shovels of mud up to the masons. In fact, another tender was promptly fired by the foreman because for one, he'd heard the jerks remarks at me and
behind my back and for two, I was a much better worker. I never showed up hungover, late, or tried to leave early. I saw myself as part of a team, he did not.

But, usually it was the 'civi's', the people in the local stores that cast an evil eye my way when we went to get lunch or stopped for gas etc. It was one thing for them, I think,
to see men covered in dirt and quite another to see a woman the same. And sometimes it's other women who judge you and some people assume you must be gay ( not! LOL ).

Rebekah, congratulate yourself for an immense amount of self-restraint. The Hand Grabber more than deserved a clip to his jaw. You probably already know that how much you feel degraded by someone is often due in part to how much power you give their opinions. The men I've worked with in the past have often advised to put a jerk in their place
right away because if they sense any weakness whatsoever, they'll keep dishing it out. I always treat everyone I meet with respect, but not jerks. They don't deserve it.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 06-15-2008 12:42

DILLIGAFF!!! :) :) :)

AMIIGAFF!!! :) :) :)

We can think whatever we want!!! We just cannot touch, and quite frankly some of the butts being shown by some of the women I've seen on sight are better off not being touched!! Now there's nothing wrong with observing the natural beauty that some women possess, and tend to show off for us men to observe, and visa versa!!!
It is wrong for one or more men to verbally or physically express what they think about when observing this type of natural beauty!!!

You mean to tell me that women don't stare at men's butts or their crotches when they're being flashed at inadverantly??? - Yeah Right!!!

What you cannot tell us men to do especially on the job site, is to tell us how we should think because, that's like us telling you how you should also think!!! Women and Men will think any which way they choose to... It's called "Free Will" and no one can change that!!! But more importantly, it's the actions that are taken which really matter in the workplace such as mutual respect, and that's more important to focus on!!! Thoughts are just that - Thoughts!!!
Nothing more, nothing less!!! Actions always speak louder than thoughts or words - PERIOD!!!
The last thing we need on the job site is the thought police!!! Now the actions or words police is another story!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry

Respectfully,
Henry

By jrw159

Date 06-15-2008 16:52

Henry,
Please bring me up to speed on the meaning of these.

DILLIGAFF & AMIIGAFF.

John :-)

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 06-15-2008 19:00

You've got a PM John!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

By brightblue (**)

Date 06-15-2008 17:49

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on there Henry...WHERE on this entire thread are any of the women putting forth that your THOUGHTS should be controlled by anyone but you at any time? No one has. So I don't really get where all the 'thought control' stuff is coming from. Have you been watching science fiction movies this weekend? LOL

There is a fine line between joking around and offending with intent. Often, knowing where that line is has a lot to do with the manners a person's raised with as a child. Just blarting out any old thought is generally considered to demonstrate a lack of self-control, self-will, composure, but most importantly to the working world: a lack of good judgement. If someone demonstrates a lack of judgement and word spreads, he or she may find themselves being "parented" by the company in some way.

If you're just thinking thoughts, um, no one can hear them but you anyway right? :)

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 06-15-2008 18:53 Edited 06-15-2008 19:13

Man O man!!! I thought someone's response would be the way it is!!!

Hold on nothing!!! Where do you come off with your high and mighty attitude??? First off this response wasn't even directed to your post!!! (check the time frame of the post, and remember that just because my post is listed below yours, it doesn't mean that it's a direct response to your post on any of the threads in this welding forum!!!)

It was directed towards Rebekah who's been participating for quite some time in this forum as opposed to someone like you who has a chip on their shoulder and feels it's within your rights to attack any man that doesn't in your opinion, show total agreement with some of the conversation that's been going on in this thread!!! Have YOU been watching too many Sci Fi movies lately??? I copied and pasted this quote by Rebekah so, were you wearing glasses when you read the ENTIRE THREAD??? Only you can answer that!!!

"By rebekah (**) Date 05-10-2007 11:10
And for the guys, really it's in your hands to make woman more accepted and willing to come to the profession. Next time you are around a woman who has to bend to pick up a tool, watch what you are thinking. If you wouldnt think the same thoughts about Plumber Bob when he drops his wrench, you might need to reasses your opinions.

Sorry, didnt mean to get preachy."

Before you start accusing someone in here that has trained over 100 women how to weld. and where more than 70% have gone to make successful careers out of their new found skills, you better take some extra time to really, really, really, READ the ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE YOU START TO ACCUSE ANY MAN that they're outright crazy, or sexist in their comments!!! Btw, "Weldcome" to the forum!!!

Your last sentence says it all!!! Can you listen to my thoughts right now??? I didn't think so!!! That is exactly my point as I was speaking for all men in general!!!
I usually end with "Respectfully, Henry" but considering your knee-jerk response, I will refrain this time by ending with...

Henry

By brightblue (**)

Date 06-15-2008 19:36

"...as opposed to someone like you who has a chip on their shoulder and feels it's within your rights to attack any man..."

That's a mouthful of accusation there for someone who doesn't know me. And on no thread have I 'attacked' anyone.

I did not notice in my initial reply to you, where you had quoted Rebekah. Still can't find it. And given the tone of your post, I frankly could care less.

Wow, you feel ok about speaking for all men in general? Really? And you say that I'm arrogant. That's hysterical. I also never, at any point have ACCUSED
anyone here of 'being sexist'. Find the post where I wrote that....can you? No, you can't. But that minor little fact doesn't matter to you I imagine.

"and remember that just because my post is listed below yours, it doesn't mean that it's a direct response to your post..."

BTW, to reply to a post, which you say was Rebekah, simply click on 'Reply' under her post and your reply to her will follow. No muss, no fuss :)

This is the last I'm going to reply to you. If you have any further insults you'd like to shout at me, PM them. I won't necessarily read them, but at least no one else will have to.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 06-15-2008 20:08 Edited 06-15-2008 20:15

Are you finished??? Go back to your "Cube Farm!!!"
Btw, while you're at it TAKE A CHILL PILL and stop over analyzing everything that's posted in here!!! Btw, posting a reply on this forum does NOT work that way, especially if there's been more than one day time difference so, please stop acting like you know this forum when you really don't have clue as to how it really works!!!

"That's a mouthful of accusation there for someone who doesn't know me. And on no thread have I 'attacked' anyone."
Oh really?? Then what did you call your last response to my previous post that lead to this point??? One word - DENIAL!!!
Now a "Newbie' here who has never even welded is going to tell me how to work this forum ROTFLMAO!!! You just gotta love the comedy coming from Bright Blue!!! :) :) :)

One last thought... You might want to join a union instead because, they're looking for women like you!! Besides, you don't even have to pay for the education... that is - if they can put up with your attitude!!! :) :) :) AMIIGAFF!!! DILLIGAFF!!!

Henry

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 06-16-2008 02:41

I thought you was responding to brightblues post too. Because of the way the posts are threaded, thats how it appeared to me. Of course I may have the settings wrong on mine or something.

I may have to read it all again just to get my head right!

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 06-16-2008 04:50

Matt 6: 27-28

By CWI555

Date 06-16-2008 12:33 Edited 06-16-2008 14:50

With all respect, I am not trying to preach, just stating my opinion on the matter, which last I checked, I am allowed to do still.

I can see both sides of this one. It's also an age old problem. On one side of the fence there is the thought control. On the other it's freedom of thought.
I've always held the belief that to taken any given action, it must first be in the mind. However; when it gets to a point, where what is in our private thoughts are being controlled and simple looks becoming legal or morale issues, a line must be drawn. It would be hard to walk and work with blinders on.

I can't say as I would have the same thought of witnessing plumber bob bend over and grab a pipe wrench as i would if it were plumber jane.
To guard against that instance flash of thought would require years on end of mental disciplining/brainwashing, and to what end? Politically correct thoughts?

My personal opinion is it's a control issue. One or the other person trying to assert control over another, either physically or mentally.
If an action can be forced upon someone "being written up for a look" Then that is in fact thought control. Orwells 1984 'ministry of truth" comes to mind.
I believe I'd rather be dead than being forced to that extreme.

On the other hand, continuous staring, and or physical gestures would be going to far on the other end of the spectrum. If anyone attempted to stare me down male or female, I would not stand idly by and do nothing. Nor would I stand by if it were my wife being stared down in such an obvious manner.
If a man or a woman continously stared at jane or bob respectively, jane or bob would be within their rights to take action in my opinion.

Peoples personal space feels threatened when stared down in such a manner which invokes instinctual reactions more primeval than conscience thought.
Those reactions cannot be helped by the vast majority of people. I have, and will take such stares as hostile, and always will. Speaking for myself, I've been in more than one scrap out of those reactions.

There is a huge gulf between the two, and not such a fine line as some would say it is.

I will not control my thoughts to the nth degree. Nor will I stare down anyone I don't intend to scrap with.

Peoples thoughts should be their thoughts until they violate that basic premise. Anyone that doesn't like that.. well They will have to get over it, as my thoughts will not change for no one or no one entity. There is not a lot of point in living if it's living under such a yoke as to resemble the one used on cattle and animals.

Regards,
Gerald