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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / The Toughest Fluxcore Test
- - By TaylorTolliver (*) Date 05-16-2007 05:13
i wanna know what is is. i wanna take it.
Parent - - By chuck meadows (***) Date 05-16-2007 12:46
For a tough FCAW test, try hanging upside down, one leg tied to a burning rope, hanging over a pool of hungry alligators, wind blowing 40 mph, using 308LT1-1 welding on dirty aluminum. Now seriously, what is the purpose of your post? In your post in the Certification and Qualification Section you indicated you already knew about everything there is to know. Being only 17 yr. old, and in your first year of career school, may I respectfully suggest you forget about trying to prove something to yourself (and to the members of this Forum) and concentrate on your studies at hand. Learn the basics and continue to go forward from there. Welding is not about trying to prove something to someone, but striving to be the best that YOU can be. A lot of us in here have offered what we thought was good advice to you, and I suggest you take the advice of the people that have been there before and are willing to advise you in the right direction. If you are not willing to listen (at least pretend to listen), then you are wasting your's and our time.
Parent - By JA (**) Date 05-16-2007 13:14
Good answer Chuck.......

AWS D1.1-structural steel,semi-auto "3-G"  "4-G"    E71T-8..........knock that out and your good to go,,,,,,,,,go where , like Chuck said , thats up to you.......
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 05-16-2007 14:45
Chuck,
You forgot the dirty mirror and a #34 shade lens.
Parent - By chuck meadows (***) Date 05-16-2007 14:49
You are right, Jeff, I forgot that one..LOL
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 05-16-2007 14:59
OK js,
You want to back up and fill me in about this #34 lens you were using ;-)

.....LOL
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 05-16-2007 15:34
Its for welders inordinately concerned about UV fusing their contacts to their eyeballs. But its OK because I have me one of them 12.50 cheater lenses as well.
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 05-17-2007 15:29
LMFAO Chuck!!! 

Hey, I'm sure we all wish TT well, he just needs to realize he's still a pup... 

TT, try a 6GR open butt, vertical down on PH Stainless Steel in a howling gale... really dude, no matter how tough of test you pass, only years of experience will make you realize how little you know.

You are welcome in the Forumm but will get a lot more respect by recognizing how humble you should be at this point in your career....
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 05-16-2007 13:31
Hello Taylor Tolliver, Chuck and a few others have congratulated you at the same time that they have tried to impress upon you that your journey into the welding world has really just begun. I teach at a community college level, on many occasions I run into very bright and talented young individuals who have come out of high school shops and career centers, in some cases these individuals have been given somewhat of a false sense of what their capabilities really are. Sometimes, through the coaching of their prior instructors or just an attitude of their own, they display an inflated opinion of their capabilities. Even as I work with my students I have to point out that they are being taught to know how to make a weld correctly in the confines of a welding booth, once you hit the real world there is a whole new set of challenges that begin and this is when the real tests of patience, talent, persistence, and ingenuity have to kick in. The difference between taking a 1" unlimited plate test on a coupon that is 5" long in a welding booth and welding out a seismic connection on a structural column on the 56th floor of a sky scraper are immense. Temper your enthusiasm and keep your eyes and ears open. If you show a willingness to learn and have an opportunity to go after that first job, there will be more individuals out there that will be willing to share their expertise with you, if you go out there with a bravado attitude and people sense that you feel you already know everything, they will let you prove it and it won't be pretty. My comments are definitely not to knock you down so don't take them that way, they are to slow you down and to urge you to change your tact to one that will lead you to success. Good Luck, Allan
Parent - By chuck meadows (***) Date 05-16-2007 13:57
Allan,
  A very good perspective from an instructor's point of view. Hopefuly T.T. will heed your words, while not thinking none of us are trying to knock him down. Maybe hearing this from an instructor will mean more to him. Thanks, Allan...

Chuck
Parent - - By RANDER (***) Date 05-16-2007 13:40
Sometimes the toughest tests are not for certification.  Take that tough test you want and get to work.  Middle of the night on a 16 hr shift, freezing cold, snow, rain, wind, You are going to miss youre daughters birthday tomorrow.  Stay on the job and get it done.  Thats youre test.
Parent - - By gshuma (**) Date 05-16-2007 13:50
Rander has the best reply.
We are not here to weld, sweep the floor, answer the phone etc. We are here to make money for the company. Sometimes that's a tough pill to swallow but when you realize that then you are a welder, machinist or whatever.
Parent - By chuck meadows (***) Date 05-16-2007 14:00
This is true, but proper training is the only way you are going to get there. I know of no company willing to hire anyone without experience, whether it is a floor sweeper, welder, or machinist.
Parent - - By chuck meadows (***) Date 05-16-2007 14:05
George,
  T.T. is only 17 yr. old, less than one year of career school, passed only one test (depending on where he took this test and if it was a reputable testing lab, there were no certifications given), do you think he is ready for the work force? I definitely do not think he is ready. And, I would venture to guess that not many companies feel he is ready. That does not mean he isn't going to be a very good welder at some point for some company, but now is not the time.
Parent - By RANDER (***) Date 05-16-2007 14:34 Edited 05-16-2007 14:36
Thought Id clarify my response a little.  I really meant to say the toughest tests may be yet to come for Taylor.  You pass the cert. test and the real work comes.  See New Titos last posts and his situation with his shop.  Hes got a new CWI card in his pocket but his real test is whether he can stick with the company and make a difference or give up and walk away.  T.Ts' Post shows an attitude that is instilled in lots of people and most people applaud it in our youth.  He said "I'll take on the toughest test ya got, I may not pass but im gonna give it heck" well I assume the last part of that paraphrased quote.  But thats where he is in his time in this world.  It sounds somewhat shortsighted and he'll find that out after he passes that test in the shop he'll encounter that same test day after day in the field under adverse conditions when his heart, mind, and body want to go to a warm place and that will be his "Toughest Fluxcore Test"

And I like that he is 17 and trying to challenge himself.  When I was 17 I was not running head on into tests. 
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 05-16-2007 14:39 Edited 05-16-2007 14:42
I dunno.

Well I do..... you guys are all right.

But it is so rare to see a kid so gung ho about excelllence that I kinda like it.

I know when I get a student like that........ I'll find that next test for em...

That dirty ol fallen world will humble us all soon enough eh?

TT......  Which ever test you recently passed..... Just try that again left handed for starters.  When you have that mastered you can restrict your access to the work to the point you need a mirror to view the weld.

Being a professional welder usually means being a professional test taker... Be patient... If you stay in the field I promise you will see plenty of tests.

And ya know...... it's always satisfying to pass a test.... I like that feeling whether its a cert test or just a tough project, even if nobody is watching its a rush.

Chances are that you will need to leave FCAW behind for a time and work on other processes and get just as good at them.

::::::visualizing welding over a pit full of hungry gators.
Parent - By chuck meadows (***) Date 05-16-2007 14:53
Lar,
  I agree with you, but his instructor would know his ability, enthusiasm, and degree of ability at this stage of his training. I just feel he should take it easy and follow his instructor's lesson plans. Sometimes a young man will try to jump too far ahead and if he does not totally succeed it causes him to lose confidence, which is the worse thing to do when welding.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 05-16-2007 14:57
Tolliver,
The hard part isn't in the testing. Its in the pipe rack or boiler where access is limited to Jenny Craig devotees. Its in Schedule 40 2" with a gap you can stick finger in. Its in roots that won't fuse, cracks that won't stop, purge dams that won't hold, and RT that says if I catch you your down the road. Its sittin on a 45deg hill and watching the guy behind you pull out and head down the right-a-way and you still have 5 passes to complete. Its in the fab shop where 100 diameter inches a day ain't gonna make money. Its welding on 12 chrome SMAW in sleaves in August in Brownsville Texas. Or brushing the snow off of SS 100 feet in the air in Minnesota in December.
This is not to discourage. Not at all. Its just to remind that the tough will come.
Parent - - By chuck meadows (***) Date 05-16-2007 15:19
T.T.,
  Can you see the pattern here? Take your time, master one thing before moving ahead. Remember, attitude means a lot, too. Practice, practice, practice...
Parent - - By ZCat (***) Date 05-16-2007 19:17
Take you a 6G test on some heavy wall pipe, you'll find out just how good you are.
Parent - - By bellaru (*) Date 05-17-2007 02:49
ya , but that test , or any other test is just a drop in the bucket,,,,,,,what about the torch,,,,the air-arc,,,,,grinding your ass off,,,,operating numerous other power tools,,,,,, welding to code ,,,,etc,,,and not killing yourself in the process,,,,you can be the best in everything in your school , but the truth of the matter is that your a long ways away from doing anything at a professional level,,,,it takes years to become an expert,,,,ask anyone in this forum,,,,i get better every day , and I've been doing this for almost 30 years,,,,,a lot of the journeyman wouldn't even want to bother with you or any other rookie just to keep from babysitting you in everything you do.......
and it's the same with you , me , and anyone else , i thought i knew it all and was "so" damn good at everything ,,,,,,,,and it was years later that i finally realized , i didn't know sh*t.......you'll see.........

no disrespect intended.........and good luck.......
Parent - - By waynekoe (**) Date 05-17-2007 14:29
Hey Taylor, still out there?
Parent - - By chuck meadows (***) Date 05-17-2007 23:26
I saw him at the corner Diner eating a slice of "Humble Pie"..  LOL
Parent - - By TaylorTolliver (*) Date 05-18-2007 01:46
ha          ha. funny.
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 05-18-2007 07:47 Edited 05-18-2007 07:52
Tolliver-

An apprentice welder can

Run a nice bead

a WELDER CAN

fit form and cut pipe, angles, beams, and sheet metal all from nothing more than a blueprint and a stack of material and a few humble tools
knows how and when to use a saw (of any type), a brake, a shear, or a torch.
can form metal with nothing but a hammer, some c clamps and some carefully applied heat...without destroying what he is working on
knows (most of the time) when he should consult a book or a spec to do the job properly
can make the tools he needs to do a certain job
should be as good at layouts as running a nice bead
IS always ready to learn

To me an ACCOMPLISHED WELDER can/has/is

Run TIG, MIG, Stick, Oxy-Acetylene on a wide variety of materials in ANY position. (probably is familiar with pulse / spray arc as well)
Fit and do sheet metal work with the best of em.
the ability to estimate the hours tied up in a job or project pretty acurately
Knows a cert is just a way to qualify for the job at hand....whether he is proud of it or not.
is always ready to learn

A MASTER WELDER
is more patient and humble than the first two
is always ready to learn

I have only met one guy I think falls into the Master catagory (although I feel there are a few hanging out on this forum).......I have been at this for twenty years.
Parent - - By gshuma (**) Date 05-18-2007 11:59
Good one Tommy
But let's go easy on this kid, like many of us I started out knowing it all. He has to make all the same mistakes that it takes to make him a good craftsman.
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 05-18-2007 12:20
Hey taylor, why do you want to know what the tuffest fluxcore test is?  Do you just want to be a fluxcore welder?  It's best to be as well rounded at all processes and if you accomplish this the sky is the limit.  Attitude is a key factor in this industry as well.  I can tell ya this right now that i've never met a cocky welder that was actually that good.  The real good welders are the humble quiet ones that keep to themselves about their skills.  If you're that good it will be recognized eventually wherever you end up and you will go far.  In other words let your skills do the talking and everyone will like you.  Being good and haveing knowone like you because your cocky will only make your life miserable.  
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 05-18-2007 13:24
Somehow I suspect TT is going to be a top notch welder. I never met a great one yet that didn't have some arrogance or extreme confidence about them. A desire to attack the next hurdle. Certainly some manifest it more subtle than others, but its always there. I think its endemic to the welding industry. You are putting your reputation (and your job sometimes) on the line every time you light up. Perhaps its necessary.
Parent - By chuck meadows (***) Date 05-18-2007 13:55
Jeff, he may end up a good welder, but he is not starting off with the right attitude. Self confidence is good, but all these "go mee's", "I rule". and evertbody pay attention to me, type comments don't bode well with many. It might be just the immaturity of a 17 yr. old, but if he is serious, he should listen to those of us have been down that long road. I'll guarantee you, and you probably know it, I would have been
put in my place if making those type of comments to the people that were trying to help me. I don't think we are being too rough on him, either. How else is he going to know that type of attitude, or behavior, will cause him more grief than anything around his peers. Attacking the next  hurdle is fine, but he hasn't even seen the hurdles yet. Jeff, I've taught welding at some very respected institutes, and there is no way that would have been tolerated. Give him a few years and then see where he is at.
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 05-18-2007 14:01
Yes confidence is very good, but arogance is very bad amongst your coworkers and will get you knowwhere except stuck in the crapiest hole making a weld or the dirtiest, hottest, stanky spot that you know knowone else wants to be in.  You'll be 1st recomended for all those jobs i guarantee it!!!
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 05-18-2007 15:05
Yeah, I thought I was pretty hot sh*t too when I first started... until I got moved from the fab shop to a "real" welding job... managed to mess up the very first part I ever worked on... a ships bulkhead, 1/4" thick and about 8 feet tall... had no clue about backstepping my welds (a vertical up weld)... I loved welding vertical up but about 1/2 way up everything came unglued and I could see the shadow of my 7 foot tall, 350 pound foreman standing right behind me!!!!!!  He was nicknamed "Lurch" and was as mean as a junkyard dog... no, I didn't get fired but....
Parent - - By ZCat (***) Date 05-18-2007 16:05
Man, y'all need to lighten up a little.
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 05-18-2007 16:23
Just trying to make a point brother... the point is, we're actually trying to help TT not harrass him.
Parent - - By chuck meadows (***) Date 05-18-2007 16:37
Lighten up a little? Would it be better to condone his attitude, or point out things that will make him a better professional in his field of choice? Like Jon said, we are all only trying to lend advice that we all have probably learned the hard way. ZCAT, you can take this any way you want, but it is not meant to be disrespectful, but helpful, but that is a lot of our problems with our young people today. Lighten up, overlook the obvious, condone any behavior, accept any judgement as acceptable. It ain't that way, Brother. Anything any of us have said regarding this young man has not been deragatory, but offered as caring, helpful advice, nothing more. If that is offensive to anyone, I do not apologize. There needs to be more of that in our world today. I think anyone not living in a vacuum will agee.  
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 05-18-2007 16:57
Too true Chuck... that is a HUGE problem today... speaking the truth only to hear it "offends" someone... apologizing to the Aetheists because our forefathers used the term "God" in so many of our legal documents... puuuuuulllleasssseeee!!!
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 05-18-2007 17:58
Hello TaylorTolliver, I think you've gotten the skinny pretty hard about attitude here, now I'd like to give you a bit more perspective on the learning end of things. I have seen students of all types over a considerable amount of years, many of these individuals have possessed unbelievable talent and ability, not all however were what I would call the total package. YOU will want to be the total package, you will want to have the skills and the attitude that says I am the best choice for the job that you have waiting for me. Students come to me all the time saying "this is good enough isn't it?", I look at it and say it will meet industry requirements, yet to be that much better go and work on this and that and it will be that much better. They will give me that puzzled look and again ask why, I will then reply with a couple of statements: first one being, you will be in competition with others looking for that "perfect job" don't you want to be head and shoulders above the rest of the applicants?, second one being, if you were the customer having something fabricated and welded would you be willing to pay $80 to $100 dollars an hour for the type of quality that you are holding in your hands?
     The first impression that you make on a perspective employer is generally the one that decides at that moment whether you will go to work or not, even further, when you show up at a business and speak to the secretary the impression that you make there may decide whether your application goes on for consideration or it goes into the round file(garbage). I try to impress upon students the need for completeness, that includes punctuality(can you make it to work on time?, can you make it to work every day?), communication skills, confidence, the way you dress, how you act, your level of preparedness, and welding and shop skills. Sometimes instead of saying that you KNOW how to do something, say that you have had experience doing something instead, that statement says that you understand that you may have things to learn yet. It is great to see your level of enthusiasm, consider that everyone here on the forum that has given you advice has had to make a start in the trade and they are trying to give you a heads up on how best to proceed and be successful. Once again work for the completeness it won't let you down when you go out there for that job. Regards and best of luck, aevald
Parent - By darren (***) Date 05-18-2007 23:19
"If a man does his best, what else is there?"

Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

Do your damnedest in an ostentatious manner all the time.

"Audacity, audacity, always audacity."
(English translation of the French Proverb)

The most vital quality which a soldier can possess is self confidence; utter, complete, and bumptious.

all  gen. george patton
there a lot more, but you can look them up if you want

very good thread

hey taylor some of the very best minds and hands within the whole welding industry are here.

another thing that is so obvious that it has been overlooked
stay away from drugs and alcohol, they ruin careers/lives/families

keep coming back and good luck.

darren
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / The Toughest Fluxcore Test

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