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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / New here...question about welding square tubing handrails
- - By needhelp Date 05-15-2007 15:37
Hi All,

I'm rebuilding my deck and have decided on using steel for the railing.  My contractor bought square tubing roughly 1.25" square.  The welders came and welded the top rail to the posts yesterday.  When I got home to inspect the job, I noticed they only welded 3 of the 4 sides.  Is this normal?  They told me some companied only weld 2 of the 4 sides.  That doesn't seem right to me.

I asked about the gap that is left under the top rail and they said they will use silicone in the gaps and paint the entire railing.  Again, is this how railings are done?  Should the weld not go all the way around?

Thanks
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 05-15-2007 16:47
Is there a specification the contractor is supposed to work to, or is he making a rail as he goes?  Is there a building code for your area that applies to residential railings?  Is there a local code enforcement officer for your community that can provide information?

It is possible that welding only 3 sides will be strong enough to serve for a handrail.  It depends on the tubing thickness, location of welds, size of welds, spacing of posts and supports, etc.  Likely no one here could say without seeing the plans and specifications.

Silicone is often used to seal openings to slow down corrosion (silicone won't hold paint well, a paintable polyurethane caulking would be better). 

However, it sounds like your contractor is building the rails as cheaply as he can; just enough to last the warranty period.  That's how the free enterprise system works, he tries to do the least amount of work for the most money he can get; you try to get the most for the least money.  If he values repeat customers and customer referrals, he will stand by his work.  But I would check with your local authorities to see how the work is supposed to be regulated, if at all.
Parent - By tompit9 (***) Date 05-15-2007 17:34
my self I weld all the cuts, unless there to tight to get to. yep, I say the contractor is a quik in and out not do it right and no future safty. hole it holds up!
Parent - - By scrappywelds (***) Date 05-15-2007 20:23
If the open gap is at the bottom of the railing it could be a weep point. A hole to remove the moisture inside the tubing to help the rusting from inside out, my thought would be laziness  more than likely.
Parent - By ZCat (***) Date 05-15-2007 20:42
pitiful
Parent - - By reddoggoose (**) Date 05-15-2007 20:43
What has most likely happened it the fit up on the railings was probalby not very good so instead of trying to fill the gap they are just going to caulk it to keep water and condensation out or like was mentioned in a previous post, they are trying to cut corner. From a strength stand point if the other welds are good then you likely have nothing to worry about. If is not necessarily the right way to do it, but it's not going to cause the railing to fall down. If it was my railing I would be annoyed, but I might let it slide depending on the rest of their craftsmaship. Caulking joints like this happens quite frequently in railing work.
Parent - - By Molten Metal (**) Date 05-15-2007 21:47
You'll most likely have to live with it,but it's B.S. Sounds like a cruddy job.I've never personaly heard of leaving a gap anywhere for "weeping".I'm not saying it hasnt come up,"possibly",but if there's no gaps,then no moisture can get IN.Handrail dudes are usually using self sheilding flux cored mig,it's the cheapest way to go and is pretty hard to close a gap on thin metal.Chalk it up to experience.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 05-15-2007 22:11
Hello Molten Metal, I agree with your comments here. There is only one situation where I have known weep holes to be included, they were actually there to prevent condensation or other forms of moisture from being allowed to build-up in the tube or pipe where the geographical area included freezing. Here again, this would be an intentional weep hole and not just laziness in completing the welding job. Regards, aevald
Parent - - By Molten Metal (**) Date 05-16-2007 03:18
Thanks , Aevald.I like to learn,and boy do I on here.:)
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 05-16-2007 03:53
The ones I have built were sch.40 water pipe, coped, fit and welded all arround and welds blended with a flap disk. This made a nice job, but took time. From the strength standpiont it really doesn't take all that much weld to hold the rail together, and when somebody backs a truck into it it bends regardless.
Parent - - By JA (**) Date 05-17-2007 03:56
he probably welded the front and 2 sides and didn't want to bother with the backside.......lazy , cheap , half-assed........

who cares about what "other" contractors do,,,,,tell him your not interested in whether or not its strong enough,,,,it probably is,,,,,its a workmanship issue,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you know , a monkey can tack coat hanger racks together for K mart,,,,,,tell him to do at least,,,,a little better than that.......
Parent - - By JA (**) Date 05-17-2007 03:58
unless of course he'll take "banana's" for payment..........
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 05-18-2007 08:03
...its not that uncommon actually.  

I use to do a lot of handrailings in job shop/portable work.  While I usually had a small #40 hole drilled into the tube for venting/weeping ...many competitors simply left a weld off the bottom side and used silicone.     When you weld up this tubing on each end it will build up pressure and thus "blow out" the last bit of weld sealing it off...this looks unsightly and often requires a bit of grinding and then sealing (silicone). If they simply leave a weld out  it saves them time and effort ....its real doubtfull to affect the integrety of your railing. Its just a cheaper way to do it.

The more difficult method involves drilling holes at every joint to be welded and allowing the tubes to vent into each other with one having  an open end.
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 05-18-2007 12:51
Tommyjoking,
I have seen  the drill a hole technique used on some small/ short pipe jobs that might have some small amount in them water, but we weld square tube railing on all sides on a regular basis without issue.  We also make many heavy wall tubing gage and robot stands that are required to be welded on all joints, and don't see issues with those either...Unless they have a large amount of cutting fluid inside them that starts to "boil" and cause a slight rise in pressure before the joints are sealed off.  This is just what we see, and I surly don't discount what you are saying.

Mark
Parent - - By makeithot (***) Date 05-20-2007 15:49
Having welded thousands of feet of railing I would have to say B.S. Sounds to me like these boys are just lazy . on steel railing we used to weld all joints 100%. If there was an issue with condensation drill a hole through the base plate so you don't see it.
Parent - By JA (**) Date 05-21-2007 07:28
my point exactly..........
Parent - By Sourdough (****) Date 05-21-2007 16:40
I wouldn't dare leave a job like that.They sould have seal welded everything, PERIOD! AND, why did they not take measurements and fabricate this rail in the shop, where they have all the means necessary to make railing with NO cracks visible??

You give me a shout and I'll come do it right, and back- bill these guys that obviously screwed you!
Parent - - By XPERTFAB (**) Date 05-23-2007 14:53
Four sides to be welded to complete the job.  But only three are complete.  I'd say the job of welding the connection is three quarters complete.  That means based on performance, the contractor should get only three quarters pay!  Less of course any additional backcharges for extra management time, extended jobsite conditions costs, man labor hours for findiing someone to complete the job and the direct costs by the new hired welder for completion of work.  should work out that the original contractor gets about $.30 per every dollar shown in his bid. 
Suggest to him that he should exercise his right to remedy at this time and correct the problem otherwise you will seek arbitration.  In the arbitration proceedings you will seek to pay him by the inch for welds completed.  After all you are paying in for work of welding completed, so a total number of  inches welded  measurement is fair.  He will come right around to see things your way>
Xpertfab
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 05-24-2007 11:38 Edited 05-24-2007 11:40
I never said it was a quality job.....quality means its right  (if it aint right its wrong).  I just said its not uncommon..lots of people out there doing half assed work. IS his railing gonna fall apart...probably not.  Did he pay too much... maybe.  I like sourdoughs analogy he gave you 3/4 of the welding work so he gets three quaters pay!. 

Another good point is proffessionals measure the job and build the railing in shop then go install it.....if they built on the spot...hmmm...probably not much experience there.  When I built railings on a regular basis the price was $22 per running foot for a four foot  high railing......that was 15 years ago.....take that info and deal with that contractor.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / New here...question about welding square tubing handrails

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