Old Electodes

Date 05-30-2007 14:04

Rebekah,
Allow me to reply concerning the storage and re-drying of stainless steel electrodes only..Naturally, SS electrodes should not be stored in damaged or opened containers. Storeroom temperatures should be kept as evenly as possible (+/-5C variation). It should not fall below 15C. Relative humidity should not exceed 50%.

Now, electrodes should not be stored for more than 5 years. If stored more than 5 years, they should go through a re-drying process. The re-drying (re-baking) process goes like this: The electrodes should be re-baked for approximately 3 hours at 250-280C. Heating and cooling should be carried out slowly. Electrodes can be re-baked up to three times with no danger of damaging the coating.

Remember that any steel with at least 10.5-12% chromium, with or without other alloying agents, is considered a stainless steel. Most nickel alloys contain sufficient chromium to be considered a SS, but the NiCu you mentioned does not fall in this category. So, someone else will have to address the other grades of electrodes you referenced.

Chuck

By CWI555

Date 05-30-2007 16:30

I would be interested in hearing the answers on this one. I've run into this from time to time. I've heard no, yes, and maybe, but nothing that is definitive. Re baking was a common path forward, but as it's none code work your refering to, There is no code that covers this.

Regards,
Gerald

By chuck meadows (***)

Date 05-30-2007 17:08

Gerald,
The information I contributed regarding stainless steel electrodes was taken right out of the Avesta Welding Manual. Personally, I think it is very clear and definitive and leaves no doubt to the resolution of "old" electrodes. Again, this is relating only to SS electrodes.

By js55

Date 05-30-2007 18:23

I think it depends on what general shop work means, and exactly what specific filler alloy we are talking about. With carbons, and low alloys re-baking due to hydrogen is certainly in order. But with austenitics the hydrogen issue is not near as critical. And what else is there? D1.1 for obvious reasons doesn't address re-baking austenitics, and I do not have a copy of D1.6 but would guess that it isn't addressed there either.
My experience with austenitics such as SS, nickels, monels, etc is that there is little metallurgical or mechanical weld damage due to exposure to un-ideal considitions-depending on how long and how un-ideal-as long as the operation of the filler is acceptable. After all, the primary alloying will be in the core wire and time will not damage the wire. What seems to happens first is a deterioration of arc characterisitics and a loss of manual control of the puddle. This would demonstrate a concern for coating age and maybe damage, and a concern for possibly porosity or fusion.

By chuck meadows (***)

Date 05-30-2007 19:34

Strictly in my personal experience, it has been the recommendation of the manufacturer when it pertains to rebaking electrodes (stick electrodes). I think that re-baking is primarily done to eliminate any moisture that might have accumulated over a long period of unused periods, and according to the Avesta data, that can be 5 years. Since many SS electrodes use a 304 as the core wire, with the added chemistry incorporated in the flux, moisture is a detriment to that chemistry moreso than to the core wire. Again, depending on the alloy of the SS, the flux may contain small amounts of the chemistry or larger amounts. Either way, after long storage periods, it is recommended to re-bake the electrodes. I know of nowhere where it says that re-baked electrodes, done to the manufacturer's recommendations, cannot be used for Code work.

By CWI555

Date 05-30-2007 18:29

Chuck,

I agree with your information and take on things. But that is me, others have seen it a different way, yet can't explain their position properly as you have yours. It is those people I am waiting to hear from.

Regards,
Gerald

By chuck meadows (***)

Date 05-30-2007 19:11

I understand, Gerald. I try not to give personal opinions, but information based on manufacturers documented data. After all, taking the re-baking of SS electrodes as an example, who better to get that information than from one of the world's largest producer of SS electrodes. I had much rather have that sort of information than from some folks personal information, or opinion. And, I cannot think of anyone that has been producing SS electrodes any longer than Avesta.

By ZCat

Date 05-30-2007 21:16

gve them to the local welding school

By Molten Metal (**)

Date 05-31-2007 00:59

Well....I gotta be honest.I use low-hy rod's that have been laying in open containers all the time.At the steel recycling yard they get a ton of all different types of electrodes,(smaw),and,I use them to fab non-critical items all the time.I'm not condoning it,but i havent had any problems.If the flux is cracked or chipped,i wouldnt even bother.While the sticks that look OK get used.Sure they dont weld as nice as a new pack,but their not too bad.Obviously,like you said,dont use for real important stuff.If you have a wsp for xx18,certainly use properly stored electrode's. If you want to fab up a dolly or a 4x4 bumper for yourself,i say go for it.This is just MY opinion though.I'm just letting you know what - I - do. Good luck.Gary.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 05-31-2007 02:42

So what We really need to know: If You are fixing the lawnmower, is it going to make any difference if You use an old poorly stored 7018 or a 6013 [or any other rod that isn't supposed to be Lo Hy ] to weld on mild steel ? I tend to agree with Molten Metal, as the things I weld don't require Lo Hy in the first place, why sweat it ?

By HgTX

Date 05-31-2007 14:53

It all depends on what might go wrong when whatever you welded breaks. That's entirely your call. If you can live with the damage, go for it.

Hg

By js55

Date 05-31-2007 17:26

The thing is, if your sittin on considerable inventory of old weld material it might make sense to consider how much damage they may have been exposed to, and even run a couple of tests, if you so wish, such as tensiles, bends, RT, or UT.
At one plant I worked at they had accumulated well over $250,000 of unused weld material by the time I arrived (310, 316, 317, NiCrMo's, NiCrFe's, NiCu's, etc.-not all of it SMAW of course-high alloys ain't cheap). Some of it with Nuke certs. You can bet that before we went tossing it in the can we considered carefully the alloys, the possible damage, and the application. Some we tossed. Some we used. Some we gave to the local apprenticeship school. Some we sold to secondary markets.
Talking of failures is unduly ominous considering there is so little, if any, evidence of failures due to aged coatings.
I believe its safe to say that you will witness a deterioration in arc characteristics long before a deterioration in weld properties.
Now this certainly isn't an advocacy of going on ahead and welding with a electrode that has a coating that looks like mud. Just a statement of not, by default, tossing electrodes because they are old.