D1.1:2006 - 514 grades qualified by PQR

Date 06-01-2007 16:57

I'm trying to figure out the best way to list my 514 base metal type or grade and thickness on a WPS.

On our PQR we did a CJP groove weld on 1" plate 514 grade B to itself. I don't have the ASTM book in front of me but basically 514 grades are more of thickness differentiators aside from the change in yield strength above 2 1/2". Grade B is a maximum of 1 1/4" thick with a minumum yield strength of 100 ksi and a tensile strength of 110 ksi. As are grades A, D, J, etc.

Table 4.2 on Page 135 says that I can weld plate 1/8" to UNLIMITED thickness by qualifying on a 1" plate.
Table 4.9 on Page 144 divides ASTM-A514 into two groups: Under 2 1/2" inches and over 2 1/2" presumably based on Minimum yield strength (100 vs. 90 ksi).
Table 4.8 on Page 143 reads that our Table 4.9 steel to a Table 4.9 steel PQR qualifies steels of "the same material specification, grade/type and minimum yield strength as the Steels listed in the PQR."

My inclination is that the intent of the code, in this case, is that I'm allowed to weld 514 at least up to 2 1/2" as all the grades of 514 that size and smaller have the same minimum yield and tensile strength which is why Table 4.9 only divided 514 into two groups. Thicker slabs of 514 have a weaker minimum yield strength of 90 ksi. so, based on 4.2 I might think that I could weld thicker slabs of 514 because my method has been proven to work on the higher strength material anyway.

So, my question is: did my PQR qualify me for 514 from 1/8" to 1 1/4", or to 2 1/2", or to UNLIMITED?

By Kix

Date 06-05-2007 17:36

You did a 1'' plate so your qualified ffrom 1/8" to unlimited nomatter what. All that stuff you said was in table 4.9 nomatter grade or thickness so a piece of 4.9 material to another 4.9 material done on a 1" test plate qualifies you from 1/8" to unlimited. Thats how i'm reading it anyway.

By rickc

Date 06-06-2007 16:41

I can certainly see how the intent may go that direction but, the verbiage on Table 4.8 (Page 143) about "the same material specification, grade/type and minimum yield strength as the Steels listed in the PQR" could be a problem.

514 comes in several grades based on thickness, chemical composition and yield strengths when above or below 2 1/2". I also agree that the weld we tested on the high strength 514 will result in acceptable welds for all thicknesses of 514 but a strict interpretation of table 4.8 would be that I only qualified a single grade of 514 and no others. I don't think this was the intent but, how do I get around this same "grade/type" requirement with an inspector?

By Kix

Date 06-11-2007 19:59

Yeah i see now where it says Only specific combination of steels listed in the PQR next to any steel listed in table 4.9. So if you qualify A-514 grB then thats all your qualified for. If you look at note 2 in table 4.8 you can reduce the yield strength with an increase in material thickness. It does not say how much thicker you have to go though. Man how confuseing????????

By rickc

Date 06-13-2007 17:25

Yeah, I was looking over another companies weld procedures and their WPS and PQR's lable it "ASTM-A514 (2.5 in and under)" and "ASTM-A514 (Over 2.5 in.)" and don't mention grade. I kind of like their method - it seems to be the intent of Table 4.9 to break it up that way and I think I could make a fair argument fair that type of distinction in spite of Table 4.8.

Something along the lines of, "Table 4.8 reads that it has to be the same type or grade and table 4.9 breaks 514 into two types... "

By Kix

Date 06-13-2007 18:15

So does that mean i have to qualify my A514grb to every group 2 and group 1 steel we use? We've got A514 welded to all kinds of different steels that fall in the group 1 and 2 classification. So i guess my question is do i have to qaulify a procedure for the A514 to each group 2 steel it's welded to in production? I thought i could just weld a piece of 514 to a piecce of a572 witch is a group 2 steel and have all my group 2 steels be qualified to A514. Or maybe that is right i'm all confused now.

By rickc

Date 06-13-2007 20:30

Nah, you can qualify a Table 4.9 steel to any Group 1 or Group 2 steel by Table 4.8 on Page 143. It's the 4.9 to 4.9 steels that are causing me problems.

By rickc

Date 04-16-2009 16:14

Doh, it took 17 months but, we got an official interpretation from AWS D1.1 in the March issue of Welding Journal: You have to qualify EVERY grade and combination of grades of ASTM-A514 you plan to weld.

...Although, I'm kind of kicking myself for getting talked into simplifying the request instead of just laying out all my evidence/reasoning.
http://www.aws.org/wj/2009/03/wj200903/