Why do we do it?

Date 04-27-2007 02:56

I learned to weld when I was 9 years old. My Dad showed Me how to crank the Hobart and strike an arc on a chunk of scrap He taught Himself on. I needed to learn how to weld to fix My gocart, and as it turns out nearly everything I have ever driven since. For about 39 years I have been making mediocre but usable welds to build and repair all sorts of things, and probably couldn't pass a pipe test if I had to. I have welded at work, and done fabrication and repair welding at My home shop and a few times in the field, but I am not a welder by trade, it is just another trick up My sleve, as it was for My Dad. Dad passed away almoast 3 years ago, but I still have that Hobart I learned on [as well as some other machines].

By welder5354 (**)

Date 04-27-2007 03:41

Yes, welding is something that's in our blood. There are good days on the job and bad days. The thing that really bugs me is when a welder has many good days; welds day in and day out, does an excellent job, passes all x-rays and nobody gives him a pat on the back. Then one day, something goes wrong; maybe too wet, bad rods or poor material and then he fails his weld. So now everybody knows the mr. welder has fail his weld.
Inspectors out there, please don't condem a welder because he fails a test until you have all the facts, sometimes we are too quick to judge our welders because without them where would this world be.
Welding is something us welders take pride in and each weld we do we try to make it perfect; always better than the last one. So to you new welders, always take pride in your work, but there will be good and bad days, take it from us old, but not worn out welders.

By CHGuilford (****)

Date 04-27-2007 17:12

I have to agree. Your point on not condemning a welder for failing a test is right on target. I have seen good welders fail a bend test and seen the negative talk afterward. Being an inspector myself, I try to make sure the welder is the first to know the results of the testing. Then the supervisor is next. If anyone else wants to know, I send them to the welder. But it always amazes me to see how far the word spreads in a short amount of time, and that some people don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

I really don't know why I stay in the welding business other than that I don't picture myself doing anything else. These days, I don't weld much but I'm still very much involved with welding.
There are some days when the only thing that keeps me from packing up my gear and hittin' the road is that I hate to quit on anything. Thankfully those kinds of days are not what happens most of the time. I get a lot of satisfaction in knowing when I contributed to doing a good job.
One thing the welding industry has taught me is that I can do whatever I set my mind to do. I knew nothing about welding when I started (some would argue that I still don't). I learn something new everyday, whether it's new technology or how to apply older technlogy in a new way.

One thing I have seen a lot of recently -
We have been hiring a lot of entry level people lately, largely because good welders are in short supply. Some of these people are fresh out of high school and have never welded before attending our training. As with most training programs, we teach them to pass the welding test, to work safely, and a little of how to perform their assignments. OJT and mentoring helps out with the rest and eventually the "cream rises to the top".
What disturbs me is how some of the "veteran" welders treat the new people. A few of the veterans have forgotten that they had to start somewhere too (some are still not that good themselves). I know that my company is not the only place this has happened.
We all need to remember to treat everyone with courtesy, we need to show new folks how to do the job right (as many times as it takes), and we need to remember that there are all kinds of personalities out there. (Just like in grade school, one of the most important job skills is "plays well with others"- maybe that's why I was the oldest kid in Kindergarten?)

In a few years, we'll be reading the new welders' comments on what good workmanship is all about and how someone took the time to teach them.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 04-27-2007 18:17

"We have been hiring a lot of entry level people lately, largely because good welders are in short supply. Some of these people are fresh out of high school and have never welded before attending our training. As with most training programs, we teach them to pass the welding test, to work safely, and a little of how to perform their assignments. OJT and mentoring helps out with the rest and eventually the "cream rises to the top".
What disturbs me is how some of the "veteran" welders treat the new people. A few of the veterans have forgotten that they had to start somewhere too (some are still not that good themselves). I know that my company is not the only place this has happened. " <---quote from Chet's post

Chet I see the same thing here...lots of entry level welders trying to make a go of it. Due to the way we look at seniority, these new welders all start out on the night shift and move to daylight as the positions come available. Then the nightshift gets a really bad rep for the mistakes that we find when we start our shift the next morning. Our seniors are ready to retire, but a few of them are still very willing to show a new kid a few experienced shortcuts and take the time to shorten their learning curve. When I see that, it makes me feel good at the end of the day to see that new kid armed with a few goodies in his bag of tricks.

By medicinehawk (**)

Date 04-27-2007 08:50

[deleted]

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 04-27-2007 21:29

As an inspector, I never look down on a welder for failing a test. Just like any weld, any weldor on any day can bust a test. It happens.
In the last three weeks at my new gig, I have tested 26 welders and 2 have passed. the test is 8 inch SCH. 80 open root 7018 UH, in 2 hours, 8 inch Sch 80 6010 DH 1 hour. Tough baby! Seen some good guys fail. Cap pristene, Same for bead. Wee touch IP. Gone. This is a tough life. Two passed this week. But the two guys who passed the test were the proudest guys I have seen in a ling time. It felt good to shake their hand and congratulate them. Both of them had their supervisors standing by as we were bending straps. The welders wanted to shake my hand, call their wife, then talk to their boss. I know that feeling.
BABRT's

By ZCat

Date 04-27-2007 22:34

What's the purpose of welding open root with 7018?

By Highway (*)

Date 04-28-2007 05:32

wow sounds like slag inclustion to me

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 04-28-2007 17:30

Lot of sour gas and cryogenic. Company specifications require testing to that. All I do is watch the weld test, record the data, bend the straps and do the paperwork. It is a tough test. But the consequence of failure of some of these welds could be catastrophic. They pay the welder to weld, they pay me to inspect.

By ZCat

Date 06-13-2007 23:56

seems like it would be a whole lot easier to just TIG the bead.

By boilermaker (**)

Date 06-13-2007 19:08

In my situation, welding 7018 ob is good to minimize time spent in a radiation field. If you don't have to backgrind the weld, you effectively save half of the original bid amount.

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 04-28-2007 01:22

Hey pipes,
Yes, you're right, it is different for everybody in their career choices, type of welding they find favor, and if the open road presents a challenge and satisfaction they find fulfilling. I believe we all find the niche we savor and look forward to doing each day, and that's how we know what endeavor we WANT and CHOOSE to do in our working lifestyle. I burned my first rod at 15 at my uncles' Harley shop and he taught me oxy/acet. with coathangers. Made me produce sound welds by learning the characteristics of metal.

Really got into welding after my military commitment and back into civilian life and found great satisfaction, desire, and curiosity in the production arena of manufacturing. Worked in machine/fab shops, equip. mfg., and thru careful probing of the senior workers knowledge base, managed to enhance my own experience. Learned every application of welding I could, took a few evening classes that were available, and side jobs to keep a constant touch with welding.

For me, and many others here, nothing compares to metal....shapes, size, thicknesses, alloy....cutting, grinding, drilling/tapping, bending, beveling, deburring, polishing, fitting, and then....WELDING....Stick, MIG, TIG, Oxy/Acet., SAW, Plasma, Resistance, Induction, and Laser. The world of metal is so fascinating.....and I know the woodworkers may challenge us as far as individual operations, but we each have a love of a base material. You know you're really hooked when every manufactured item you purchase you first check the welds before anything, and every structure you pass you look at the welded joints.

There are youngsters who hunger, as we did, to have someone experienced just take a bit of time and TEACH....technique, do's/dont's, quality, safety, perseverance, and the mindset of always a positive outlook no matter what the circumstances. Personally, I love to pass on my knowledge and help a youngster get started....why keep all that knowledge locked away? Who benefits when you're gone and all that knowledge gets wasted into oblivion? Who could have used some of that knowledge to further their learning and possibly become another Edison of tomorrow? Enough rambling....just hope some of the more "senior" gents, like myself, give a little, just a little, to help one of those promising youngsters. You will see who they are.....they will find you.....Denny

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 04-28-2007 03:49

The trade I apprenticed in and the only one I actually mastered is tool and die making, but the experiences I am relaying are universal to any skilled trade. I found that the really good senior tradesmen were not secretive about what they knew, they would tell/show You some tricks as they knew THEY were at the top of the game, and would always be there. They weren't worried about some kid "learning their secrets and taking their job". I soon learned that the sharp guys come up with a new trick every time they need one. However there are always those who are NOT at the top of the game and know inside that today's sharp apprentice will in several years know much more than THEY do, and would like to postpone that time as much as possible.

By pipes

Date 04-28-2007 04:47

" A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that is good enough for me"
- Dan Holohan

Dan is one of my trade heros. Great author! This quote sums it up for me. This is what makes me roll out of bed every morning and drive hours to get dirty and burned for a couple of measly dollars! The thought that my welds will be around for years after I am. It doesn't matter if anybody knows I did them, it just matters that someone appreciates the quality and love for perfection that goes into each one of them.

There are some great responses here, thank you! I am a pipe welder in the trade of Steamfitting. Others in my trade solder copper or thread pipe or use some other mechanical joint to run pipe. I've always said that you could have an entire hallway of mechanical joint leaks flooding a building and someone would find the one weld leak and shake their head at that one while dismissing the rest. We are held to an incredibly high standard. There are few other trades with the same expectation for perfection like welding. With good reason. When our welds fail, people loose money, property, health and sometimes their lives. We can not fail, even once. Is it fair? No. But it is reality. That is why our tests are so difficult. Any welder that comes down on another welder for failing a test has no respect from me, and he has not been around long enough to know how easy it is to make a mistake on a test.

Also, I have found out that the guys that show younger guys the trade are not in danger of loosing their jobs, just the opposite! They become more valuable to their companies by training a new workforce. Most move to higher positions in the company. My foreman always told me that a journeyman that won't pass on his skills is a thief. He has stolen from the guy who has trained him, and he has stolen from the trade. There is a lot of wisdom in that! He also said the only person that taught himself how to weld was the first guy that ever welded! LOL! You get what he means, we all needed help, lets pass it on!

By Highway (*)

Date 04-28-2007 05:23

we are craftsmen, and artists. Ive never met a "welder" that did not take pride in his work. Sad to say we are proberly the last real metal workers who take pride in our work

By RANDER

Date 04-30-2007 03:37

Not a welder but an Inspector. I do hope you weld in my plant with that attitude.

By CWI555

Date 04-28-2007 05:30

I think you nailed it Dave. If they truely are the masters of their trade, they have no problem teaching that trade. The mediocre tradesmen do have to worry about a talented kid "learning their 'secrets'"
I am not a welder by trade. I've trained, and certified as a welder in 6 processes, but only so that I can understand better what it is I am inspecting.
My initial training came from an old salt that inspected and welded prior to, during, and after WW2. The man was laying a bead and performing x ray before I was born. I consider myself very fortunate to have had that oppurtunity. I've since had the oppurtunity to work under more people like him as I would seek them out, once found I would and still do pick their brains as much as they will allow.
There are two common threads to a true craftsman;

They are not afraid to learn and don't care from what source, only that they learn something new. For them that something new means more than it does to someone starting out as they have the experience of years on end to compare that something to further refining their respective skills in their trade.

Another trait of this type is they actually enjoy teaching, as teaching tends to challenge assumptions. A student or trainee will asked something out of ignorance that a trained mediocre person would keep quiet on rather than "look stupid". This challenge and answer to the assumption keeps the good tradesmen sharp and sometimes teaches them something new in the process of looking for the answer.

Those two traits I consider cornerstones to a true craftsman.

By Highway (*)

Date 04-28-2007 05:40

yep CWI555, I'm in a non union shop, but the CNC guys will teach or show no one anything about the machines on 1st shift. They require the welders on first shift to do welding. On 2nd shift my cnc guy ( A kid) is teaching me cnc and I'm showing him how to tig. As I told him I can show and tell you how to do it but you have to care about your welds.

By pipes

Date 04-28-2007 14:23

Well put CWI555. Speaking of picking brains... I am going to take the CWI exam in July. That means I have 3 Months to prepare for it. The problem is, all I've ever done is weld, I don't know what to expect for an inspection exam. I have read all the info on various sites, but really, how bad is the exam? Is it worth loosing sleep over? Any good sites to study from?

By CWI555

Date 04-28-2007 16:39

http://www.ndt-ed.org/EducationResources/CommunityCollege/communitycollege.htm
http://www.ndt.net/article/az/ndtmain.htm

The exam is what you make it. It can be hard, or easy.

For the sites above, pay closer attention to the RT and the UT. You don't need to be an expert for it, just a good understanding.

regards,
Gerald

By pipes

Date 04-29-2007 13:06

Thanks a lot Gerald! Great sites, I really appreciate it!

By 803056

Date 04-28-2007 15:13

I can only agree with what many of you have already said. The more highly skilled an individual is, the more likely that person will pass that knowledge on to someone else.

That being said, the youngster has to have a thirst for the knowledge that is available. Most skilled tradesmen will gladly teach if asked. The person seeking the knowledge has to be willing to ask for help and they have to be receptive of the information that is offered.

As a young welder, I was probably one of the biggest pain in the ass around. I was always asking for advice. I had the good fortune of working with some very knowledgeable welders that were very willing to show me what they could. But I had to go to them. One welder that I consider to be one of my many mentors has a brother that was a professor of metallurgy at UCONN. Whenever we encountered a really difficult problem in the field, he would go to his "younger" brother for advice. I often wonder whether "younger" brother knows how many welders learned valuable lessons from the advice he provided. A funny thing happened, I left the Ironworking trade after twenty years as a welder shortly after they retired. It just wasn't the same when they were no longer there to share our thoughts and meals. It was time to move on.

I had the opportunity to meet "younger" brother at my friend's wife's funeral a couple of years ago. I told him that I had heard his name mentioned many times over the years and I thanked him for everything that I learned from his brother (my mentor) and from him (through my mentor).

I was once told by an engineer, "I can always tell a welder, but I can't tell him much." I hope that isn't us in our daily lives. There's so much to learn and so little time to learn it. That same engineer challenged me to take the CWI examination many years ago. He said, "You're a good welder Al and you think you know a lot about welding, but now its time for you to prove yourself. You need to take the CWI examination so that you have the credentials to back up what you say."

I took that engineer up on his challenge and passed the CWI examinations. He's been a mentor to me for the last twenty five years. He's nearly seventy and still has a successful engineering practice. I would love to emulate him and still be working when I'm his age and I can only hope that I can help as many people as he has.

Best regards - Al

By Sourdough (****)

Date 04-28-2007 15:46

I do it because it is the one thing that I do best in my life, period. I have been on so many job sites after another welder to re-do their work. At the end of the day, I go home and feel great, get a good nights sleep and prepare for the next, "impossible" task. When you are good at one thing, you should be obsessed with it. If you aren't, you are just an average Joe!

By wrangler97 (*)

Date 04-28-2007 21:43

i love it because one, like previously stated, we take pride in our work, not only in welding, but with anything. and two, the people i work with and pipefitters/welders are a different breed of people. you will learn that working with welders will humble you. also you will find that they will do anything to help you, whether its on or off the job, even after not knowing you that long. im lucky to be welding for a great fitter that knows his stuff and we get along great.

By 2003440 (**)

Date 04-29-2007 02:24

I have welded since i was about 6 years old my dad is a contractor i can remember my dad putting his pipeliner hood on me and telling me to burn some rod i felt like i was the most lucky kid to have such a great dad and teacher,he did not know then but he started a fire in my blood for burnin rod and now at 34 i love it even more than ever.I want to learn the pipe better and would give anything to have some of you old salty guys to throw some knowledge my way it seems like the more time goes on there is less and less of the old salty guys around i am currently trying to fine tune for api 1104 welding i know it is tough but i love the challenge.I hope i can run with you guys on the pipeline one day and can rub shoulders with the best welders in the world as far as i am concerned.

By downhandonly (***)

Date 04-30-2007 03:51

I love pipelining, 4x4ing down right of ways , racing with the boys on the line to see who can put the nicest fastest welds in there, starting fires at lunch time and toasting my bologna sandwiches, laughing and having a good time @ work, and everything in between.

By Kix

Date 04-30-2007 14:37

I'm still welding and striving for that perfect bead. Thats what keeps me putting my hood down. Untill i can do that i'd have to say i'll be in the welding biz for the rest of my working life. lol

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 04-30-2007 20:13

I do it because welding IS MY LIFE!!!

When you get a second chance in life like I have, you go around wondering why was I singled out, for what purpose did I get this second chance and this goes on in one's head & heart for some time... Then it hits you in the gut and all of a sudden, it becomes crystal clear!!!

My purpose in life is to pass on what little knowledge and experience I have accumulated over the many years I've been welding and fabricating to a younger generation of folks that want to be the best they can possibly be -PERIOD!!! This is why I do it!!! Well, there's one more reason... I just plain darn LOVE IT!!! I love it even more when I see my students get to love it!!! It's a feeling that's way better than sex!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

By tsalagi (*)

Date 05-01-2007 10:12

i think highway said it best. we are proud.
when you take a bunch of plate and you roll it, cut it, brake it, and then weld all of the pieces together and create something that helps America's economy, you have every reason to be proud.
not to mention that if your welds are the best ones on it.

By dmilesdot (**)

Date 05-01-2007 13:43

I got interested in welding because of my Dad. He was a good welder and he had the respect of the men that he worked with. When I started welding I wanted that same respect, but I found out that it doesnt come easily. There isnt a greater feeling in the world that to create something with your own two hands. The only thing I can relate it to is createing a child, every weld is a creation of your own doing. Its a spiritual thing. I started welding in 1970 and switched over to inspection in 1983. I cant imagine doing anything that doesnt involve welding. I have learned that welding isnt a perfect science, if it was, there wouldnt be any need for inspectors. I failed my share of welding tests, but thankfully I passed the majority of them. Im still learning, and I hope that along the way I have helped at least one welder by showing them what I have learned.

By Sourdough (****)

Date 05-01-2007 16:41

I rather enjoy sex, tho....

By Highway (*)

Date 05-04-2007 07:15

Sour that is what drives us all to be the best we can :-)

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 05-19-2007 23:31

Well after dropping out of high school...I went to colledge and halfway thru it I realized my "exciting career in electronics engineering" was nothing but a bunch of number crunching...I finished and got my sheepskin anyway.   I took on a temporary job wiring up a new shop for a local manufactuer and installing new machinery. The maintenance guys let me have the whole thing by myself after three days.   At any rate the job was complete three months later and they offered me a job in the metal shop. I told them I did not know beans about metalwork or welding...they put a wire gun in my hand and said "take a few days and see what you can learn". Well the rest is history...the work was hot, dirty, did not pay that well but I was HOOKED because it was FUN and enjoyable. In two months I was foreman over the weld shop. I found that the as I picked up more and more skills in the trade   a job became a simple phone call away most of the time. I picked up a lot of machining skills and cnc experience along the way. Its kept my family fed for a long time and has kept me interested in my work.   I have heard you are only truly successfull at what you love.....well that explains it in a nutshell for me.

I love sharing a trick or technique that somone has not tried yet...I love learning somthing that makes me better at what I do. I love seeing a guy finally get it right while trying to certify.   I love looking at a somthing I built and knowing I did it better this time than last time. All in all if I was not doing this for my living I think I would be bored to tears.

I am trying to get a guy ready to certify for D 17.1 right now in three alloys...he has been off the torch for 10 years and is struggling...but everytime he conquers a coupon...I feel as good about it or better than he does.   Thats what I really like about it We all share somthing and only we have a clue what it is.

By gshuma

Date 06-13-2007 19:56

...the work was hot, dirty, did not pay that well but I was HOOKED
I started out life as a toolmaker. I also learned to weld and once was 6G.
I now design but on weekends I leave my dry air conditioned office and go down to the docks and weld out in the weather for half pay.
Am I nuts or what?

By bozaktwo1 (***)

Date 06-14-2007 16:54

When I was in the 8th grade, I watched a guy welding for the railroad (which ran through my backyard - literally!) and was fascinated by it. So I begged, pleaded, kicked and scratched to be placed in Southeastern VoTech (in Easton, MA) for my freshman year. There I took four vocational classes: metal fab, auto body, diesel engine and small engine. Metal fab was really the only one I was interested in, and I only got it for one quarter. So anyway, because of various things going on in my life, I attended 4 different high schools over four years. In my senior year, I finally had a chance to join vocational classes again; I only needed one English credit, one semester of history and one semester of phys ed. So my classes were like: weld theory, then English, then 5 straight metal fab...yeah it was an easy year! But there was my intro to welding, and I guess I never really looked back. I love it like an artist loves paint and canvas, and although QA guys don't generally think this way, I like to think of welding more as an art than a science. I hate doing jobs where dressing the finished weld is called out! Nothing makes you feel better than climbing out of that hole at the end of the day, knowing that 150 guys are going to go out and come back safely because of what you just welded. Or putting 600psi of steam through a joint you just zipped up. Or 5000psi air. Because you know that you did that, and that not even 0.001% of the people in this wide world could make that weld.

That's why I do it.

By Milton Gravitt (***)

Date 06-15-2007 01:23

I've been welding for 34 years for a living and have work at several different places and it seams like that every where I've work I learned something new and interesting. Guess what I do for a Hobie yes I play around with welding on weekends with a friend. Why do we do it because YOU HAVE TO LOVE IT TO DO IT THIS DANG LONG.
You know I wished I had joined this Forum a long time a go because what little time I have been on it I have learned a lot of technical information about welding that I didn't know. I also think there is a lot of smart people on this forum that likes to help other's. I'm not much of a talker but I like to listen to people that may know more than I do.

By makeithot (***)

Date 06-16-2007 17:11

The thing I enjoy the most is turning a pile of material into a tangible object mechanical,structurale or other wise at the end of the day that is the signature one leaves behind, in alot of cases it is not even about the money it is just the bragging rights to say "hey look what I did with just the crudest of tools"