Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / AWS revises Standard on Welding Symbols:
- - By Cgregory (**) Date 06-28-2007 18:22
AWS is announcing today its newly published standard, AWS A2.4:2007, Standard Symbols for Welding, Brazing, and Nondestructive Examination. The standard contains 138 pages, and is priced at $144 for non-members or $108 for AWS members. AWS publications may be purchased in the United States and Canada by calling toll-free 888-WELDING (888-935-3464); elsewhere, call 305-824-1177, fax to 305-826-6195, or order online at http://www.awspubs.com. A catalog listing all AWS standards and other documents is available for download from the AWS web site, www.aws.org/catalogs.

You can also find more information here:

http://www.aws.org/pr/062807.pdf

-- Christine
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 06-28-2007 19:05
Is there a list of the changes anywhere ?

Thanks

Gerald
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 06-28-2007 19:34
Thanks for letting us know!  Standards just keep getting more and more expensive!!!!  :((((
Parent - By makeithot (***) Date 06-29-2007 15:41
I have to ask. What was wrong with the old welding sympols? They seem to have worked good up till now. Seems like alot of money to fork out for something that should just be part of the job. If the engineers are not happy with the old symbols let them pay the cost to complicate the simple and get the information out to those that need to understand what it is they want.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-29-2007 16:13
This one gives me some heartburn.

AWS wants everybody to use their common language (symbols) as well as terms and definitions but charge us to even view them..... Rubbish!

These symbols and terms are gathered, reviewed, balloted on, and released by VOLUNTEERS.   Now the "Society" (a non profit mind you) publishes through cossack publishing houses for more than a dollar a page.

Codes, I understand......... Symbols and terms should be freely  distributed via PDF just like safety (Z49.1)

:::::::::Venting complete
Parent - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 06-29-2007 16:57
I second the prior remakrs, I agree with everything you guys have said!! 

Very good points Lawrence!!
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 06-29-2007 19:09
I have to agree. A few years ago I tried to get copyright allowance to publish welding terms and definitions on my website. I recieved approval from ASME to use the terms and definitions used in Sec IX. AWS Declined my request. The terms are just stored in a database for users to lookup as needed.

ASME did request I put information about AWS 3.0 on the page since some terms were duplicate. The page is at http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com/welding_terms_and_definitions_lo.asp and has been viewed over 36000 times. I guess I have probably taken money out of someones pocket by helping someone be able to understand a little more about welding.

Gerald
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 06-29-2007 19:50
Don't get upset, Gentlemen, I'll tell you how the situation is down here.
Here in Brazil we have ABNT (Brazilian Association of Technical Standards) which of course can not be compared to ASTM nor DIN, but does a fairly good job, especially on the civil engineering, material testing and air conditioning fields. Their standards for cast iron pipes, for example, have been adopted by several South American countries.
If you want to buy an ABNT standard they won't sell you a printed copy. Rather, they'll sell you a xerox copy of it, for the modest price of 2 Reais (1 dollar) A PAGE.
Xerox copies are made in bookstores and paper stuff shops for 0,20 Reais, i.e., one tenth of what ABNT charges.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil 
Parent - - By adavis (*) Date 07-02-2007 15:41
Gentlemen

Just so you understand how the AWS codes and standards are developed and financed. AWS has over 200 codes and standards published in over 100 Technical Committees. These committees often meet 2 to 3 times per year to consider if current codes are OK or need revising and if new codes are needed. It is not AWS that decides the content of its codes and standards but the volunteer committee members who are from the welding industry.

The cost of hosting meetings and development of documents is bourne by AWS. This includes meetings rooms, staff travel and salaries and other overheads. AWS, even as a not for profit,  is obliged to cover its costs and this is done via sales of standards amongst others. Note that the sales of many of our publications do not actually cover their development costs but AWS continues to maintain these publications as they are required by the welding industry. Further, we are fortunate to have over 2,000 volunteer committee members who are fully supported to attend and participate in the development of our codes and standards. If AWS were to have to cover the costs of the volunteers as well (travel, time away from the office, expenses etc), the costs of our publications may well be 10 times or more what they are today or we would have to reduce significantly the number of publications we maintain.

I hope this explains a little the AWS pricing model which I can assure you is not  much different to other standards developers e.g ASME, ASTM, API, CEN, ISO etc.

If you wish to discuss further, please do not hesistate to contact me.

Andrew Davis
Managing Director, Technical Services Division
adavis@aws.org
1-800-443-9353 Ext 466
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 07-02-2007 15:52
Andrew, In some areas I agree with what you say but I do have one question and/or exception.  Isn't it true that ANSI dictates that review/revision cycle?  If feeble memory recalls, I believe it requires documents be reviewed, revised and/or re-affirmed once every 5 years.  Is this still correct?  If so, it's just my personal opinion that perhaps "some" of the AWS Documents are perhaps being revised / re-issued every 2 years not based on the need for change so much as the need for income.  Having been a Volunteer for many years I know first hand the cost of scheduling meetings and travel can be burdensome however Staff salaries are meager when compared to most industry couterparts.  It does make one wonder when we look at the annual financials and see pretty hefty surpluses.  Just airing my thoughts, not trying to fuel the flame...
Parent - By adavis (*) Date 07-02-2007 16:12
Jon

You are correct that ANSI requires us to look at our American National Standards every 5 years which can be extended to 10 years. If you look at the current AWS catalog at www.aws.org/catalogs, you will see that there are a number of standards that have been reaffirmed as the committees have decided that no changes are required. Further, as part of all standards development activities, there is a public review period (even for reaffirmations) and any public comments have to be addressed.

The ANSI mandated review process is intended to ensure that we do not have obsolete standards. Many committees do not wait for the ANSI mandated 5 year review period as through use and feedback, the committees are already aware that revisions are necessary and start the revision cycle themselves.

Regards

Andrew Davis
Parent - - By welderboy Date 07-02-2007 17:55
Gerald

Interesting to see the following on your website:

Copyright © 2003, Welding Inspection Services, All rights reserved. The data on this page may not be copied or redistributed in any format.
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 07-02-2007 19:24
He has to do that when permission was granted to use it.
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 07-02-2007 22:02
ASME indicated that I needed to do that. I was actually supposed to refer to ASME Sec IX and the AWS Standard in the copyright notice but instead placed a statement at the top of the page. I had modified the page footer for some of my pages and it placed that information on many of the pages. Even ones with nothing on it from another organization.

The material information (which is NOT kept current) at http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com/lookup_material_information.htm was reprinted with permission and ASME did not indicate any type of statement need be with it. The copied or redistributed statment is kinda N/A as you cannot go to a web page with out it being copied.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-30-2007 01:18
Hello Christine;

How long will Sustaining Member have to wait to get a copy?

Best regard - Al
Parent - By Cgregory (**) Date 07-02-2007 12:53
You should probably contact Membership directly at 1-800-443-9353, ext 480, for specifics.

-- Christine
Parent - - By ross (***) Date 07-02-2007 13:05
Al,

It's not printed yet. I'll let you know when it's physically available and expedite it, if you need it ASAP.

Ross
AWS Marketing
ext 226
Parent - - By Bob Garner (***) Date 07-02-2007 15:14
I'm curious.  I know the AWS document for the welding symbols is copyrighted and cannot be copied.  But the symbols themselves cannnot be copyrighted or else we wouldn't be able to reproduce the symbols on drawings, WPS's, and similar.  As soon as I see what the new symbols are, I will revise my standard drawings to show these new symbols.  Is there any restrictions to my sending my standard drawing with all the weld symbols drawn thereon by me, to anyone who wants to see the new symbols?

Bob Garner
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 07-02-2007 15:28
I'm guessing nobody is going to have to revise much in the way of their own systems. I suspect this is a new standard which generates new income for AWS, but I would suspect that there isn't exactly changes or revisions, so much as additions.
Really, I would be greatly disappointed and even appalled if AWS went and made changes to time honored and well known symbols. But additions, this can certainly be justified as the industry grows and becomes more sophisticated.
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 07-02-2007 20:24
Entering "A2.4" into the Quick Find box on the awspubs website only gets me the 1998 version.
Parent - By ross (***) Date 07-02-2007 20:55
Sorry, it's not quite back from the printer yet. The announcement was a bit on the early side.

Ross
AWS Marketing
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / AWS revises Standard on Welding Symbols:

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill