Old solar welder question

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 07-17-2007 15:03

Welcome to the forum Adam!

Good questions by the way.

If you are going to start with FCAW you need to make sure it is "gasless FCAW," dual shield FCAW will not work without gas.

Most supply houses will have small rolls of E71T-GS, This is the stuff that is very popular with hobby welders... It runs in all positons, no gas, slag comes off pretty well.

A point to keep in mind... Most gasless FCAW wire runs DCEN, Direct Current Electrode Negative also known as (straight polarity). This is different from most solid or gas shielded wires... Just remember this when you do your setup.

By aevald

Date 07-17-2007 15:21 Edited 07-17-2007 15:39

Hello Adam, as Lawrence said, welcome to the forum, and also, as usual, Lawrence beat me to a response. He gave you a very concise response for getting started with your machine. When he referred to the polarity of the machine when using the gasless fluxcored wire you will need to pay close attention to this. Most machines that are capable of being used for GMAW, gas-shielded FCAW, and gasless FCAW will have provisions for changing the polarity of the output of the machines. With a machine that can run GMAW and gas-shielded FCAW(dualshield), the welding gun will be connected to the + side of the machine output and the ground will be connected to the - side of the output of the machine. For using the machine with the gasless fluxcored wire you will need to connect the welding gun to the - side of the output terminal and the ground will need to be connected to the + side of the output terminal. these changes are many times done under the cover where the feed mechanism is housed. With the gasless fluxcored wire pay attention to the stick-out of the wire(distance the wire extends past the contact tip to where it forms the bead as welding is progressing) as suggested by the wire manufacturer and use a backhand method for welding with this particular process. Most gasless fluxcored wires will having a starting stickout of around 1/4" and extend up to around 1 1/4" or so, depending on wire diameter. Good luck on your welding experimentation and don't hesitate to ask questions in the future. Regards, aevald

By ahall13 Date 07-17-2007 17:13

wow thanks for the quick detailed responses. I didn't think about the polarity. I'll have to take a good look at it and see if the fittings are the same to just swap the gun and clamp or how it would be done inside. I didn't think about doing that.

By 357max

Date 07-17-2007 18:01

I would suggest a flux cored wire E71T-11 such as the Hobart 21B. The E71T-GS is a single pass wire. You will probably want to exercise your Welding PHD (Pile it Higher & Deeper) on thicker material. For that reason E71T-GS would not be a good selection.

By ahall13 Date 07-17-2007 18:53

I like the way you think 357!

By ahall13 Date 07-18-2007 02:40

Ok I am still a little confused about changing the polarity so I can run flux core wire. It is an older welder so maybe I have to change it manually? I can't just plug the ground clamp in the gun spot and vice versa (although it sounded like an idea lol) I have taken some pictures of the welder with the hood off so maybe you guys could take a look? They are at
http://www.13car.com/Images/welder/

I'm sorry I don't know much about welders, but I am pretty mechanically inclined. I would guess I would switch the position of the wires in the blue thing in the back of the picture? I could just go with a gas bottle, but for my needs the flux wire should get me more penetration.

Thanks again,
Adam

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 07-18-2007 03:31

weldmart.com might be someone to contact for info and parts for that machine. Usually there is a place to interchange the gun and ground feeds if the machine will do both polarities. Look for where the gun power lead [a good sized cable or strap] hooks up, this will be between the feeder and the end of the gun conduit. If this goes directly to the power suply it is not meant to change polarity, if the lead goes to a terminal block with the work lead cable that is where the change is usually made. Those machines were marketed to body shops and garages, by the tool truck venders. I doubt many welding supply shops will be really familiar with them. You might try and see if You get any weld output with solid wire without gas, You will get a crappy weld, but You will see if there is output.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 07-18-2007 03:40

First of all, I'd like to echo Larry's "Weldcome"!!!

Next, before you even start to use the machine you've got there You've got to clean it up!!! Dust is the enemy of electrical equipment regardless of what it's used for!!! Please clean the area where the wire feeder/drive rolls are... After that secure those black cables so that they do'nt get in the way of the wire that's going to be fed... at this point, move down to where the transformer and the rest of the "Guts" that make up the power source but, do'nt start the machine yet!!! In fact either disconnect it from the plug or fuse box first for safety's sake!!! Then clean the insides because you've got alot of dust built up inside!!! If you have access to a shop-vac wet/dry vac cleaner use that first then, if you cannot remove the rest, use compressed air at no more than 60 psi but, make sure you do'nt blast any type PC-board if you can because the electronics are rather sensitive so in that case, use the vac instead.

Is there a possibility that you can take a picture or two of the front and back of this machine?
I ask this because, the pics you have are showing the sides of the machine and it's guts with the exception of the top side view of the drive roll mechanism. In other words, i want you to take a picture of the machine form the front where the mig gun is hooked up to and where the on/off switch, all of the knobs and buttons are... You know, the settings!!! Did you happen to see if there was a manual around for that equipment???

Once you get those to us ,we can help you set the machine up so that you can see if it works or not???
Have you tried to strike an arc with it yet even though you do'nt have a bottle of gas yet???
I look foward to your response :)

Respectfully,
Henry

By ahall13 Date 07-18-2007 04:32

Thanks for all your help guys. I will clean it up and try and get an arc tomorrow. I took all the pictures I could think of if you need something clearer let me know

http://www.13car.com/Images/welder/

By aevald

Date 07-18-2007 15:20 Edited 07-18-2007 20:23

Hello again ahall13, when I looked at the various pictures that you posted, they indicate that this machine may not have been originally designed to have the polarity changed. Being a tinkerer by nature however I do believe that you could in fact do a few modifications to change that. The block where the wirefeed drive rolls are located is an isolated piece and has a cable attached to it that is supplying the Positive power. On the front panel there is a twist plug type of receptacle that the ground cable is attached to that is supplying the Negative connection for the ground cable. You could disconnect the positive cable that is attached to the wirefeed drive block and install a female twistlock welding connector to this lead. Next make-up a 1 1/2 foot or so long cable with another female twistlock welding connector on one end and a terminal lug on the other end, then attach the terminal lug to the connection point on the wirefeed drive block that you disconnected the positive supply cable from. Now make-up a 1 1/2 foot long jumper cable with a male twistlock welding connector on each end, one end that will match the twistlock that is on the front of the machine that currently supplies the connection for the ground lead and the other twistlock connector that matches the female end that you have attached to the short cable that is connected to the wirefeed drive block. When the machine is to be operated as it was originally designed(reverse polarity) the ground will be plugged into the same receptacle that it is now and the jumper lead with the two male ends will make the connection between the positive power cable and the short lead that you would have connected to the wirefeed drive block. When you wanted to operate the machine on straight polarity you could plug the ground cable twist lock into the female connector connected to the positive female twistlock connector and plug the jumper with the two male ends into the ground receptacle on the front of the machine and the short cable that you would have connected to the wirefeed drive block, this would make the gun connection negative and switch the machine to straight polarity. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU CONNECT THE JUMPER CABLE BETWEEN THE POSITIVE CABLE AND THE NEGATIVE TWISTLOCK CONNECTOR ON THE FRONT OF THE MACHINE, this would cause a dead short in the output circuit of the machine!!!! One drawback to trying to make this modification might involve removing the original twistlock ground receptacle on the machine and replacing it with a common type of twistlock to match the othe connectors that you would have to have to make this all work. The scenario I described here is not for an individual who doesn't have a fairly good concept of electrical schematics or how electrical systems work. So if you aren't fairly confident about these sorts of things I would not attempt to do what I have described. As Henry mentioned, if there isn't already an existing polarity switch on the front or rear panel, then this machine was originally designed to run hard wire with a shielding gas. It is a little bit underpowered for running gas-shielded FCAW so I don't think I would bother with that. But if you would really like to run the gasless FCAW it can be done by following what I have described above. As everyone else has already said SAFETY, SAFETY, and be really careful if you attempt to modify the machine. If you know any electricians have them read these instructions and see if they feel that they would work for you in this case. Regards, aevald

By ahall13 Date 07-18-2007 16:14

thanks aevald!

I understand what your saying and I appreciate all the time you took to figure that out. Since I am just trying to learn welding right now I don't think that me altering a machine would be the smartest idea for me. I figured it could be done and maybe later on this will be an option. I think I will try and see if I get an arc right now and if I do then I will buy a gas bottle. what kind of reaction will I get starting the machine with regular wire and no gas?

By aevald

Date 07-18-2007 16:37

Hello again ahall13, if the machine is in a condition that it will indeed make an arc and try to weld, you will see a weld puddle try to form but it will spark and splatter rather excessively and the bead(if you can call it that) will look like swiss cheese and will be very ugly and misformed and uneven. Shielding gases provide the protection to keep out unwanted components that are present in the atmosphere, that's why they are required with the solid type wires and "some" of the fluxcored wires. The various types of shielding gases will provide different pluses and minuses regarding the bead and depending on the gas mixtures and percentages, spatter can be reduced, penetration can be increased and other things can be affected. I would likely suggest an Argon/CO2 mixture for a shielding gas that is referred to as 75/25 (75% Argon, 25% CO2), this is a reasonably good gas to use for hard wire on a machine of the size that you have. Good luck and have fun. Regards, aevald

By ahall13 Date 07-19-2007 02:20

Thanks so much for everyones help. I cleaned the inside of the machine out tonight and fired it up and I did get and arc and the wire fed good. I am happy about that as it was an old machine you never know. Next week I'll be getting a gas bottle and it'll be time to start learning.

Thanks again you guys are great.
Adam

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 07-18-2007 04:50

Here's what they look like when new:

Solar 2175

130-amp MIG 208/230 volt - infinite heat and wire speed controls - 160 peak amps

Welds from thick, 5/16-inch steel to thin, 26-gauge sheet metal.

* Electronic wire speed control (0 to 700 inches per minute) and infinite heat control easily tune the precise speed and heat needed for the job
* Wire feed meter monitors wire speed for accuracy and easy reset
* Quick-release drive system allows easy wire change without additional tension adjustment
* Convection cooled (no fan) make it excellent for body shops
* Built-in spot/stitch timer lets you repeat spot (plug) and stitch welds
* Convenient purge/advance switches allow separate gas purge or wire advance for efficient use
* Small to large spool capacity makes wire more economical
* Excellent for welding stainless steel and aluminum

Comes Complete:

* Full welding cart
* High-quality, heavy-duty, 10-foot wire feed gun
* Ground cable assembly and clamp
* Assortment of contact tips (6 [.024], 6 [.030], 6 [.035])
* Steel welding nozzle
* Wire spindle adapter and spool tensioner
* Spare fuse
* Cable wrap brackets
* Easy-to-understand instruction manual

Here is where you can get some of the MIG gun parts:
http://www.htpweld.com/products/mig_gun_parts/solar.html

When I zoomed in on the picture of the front control panel, i could'nt tell whether or not it had a polarity switch in the front because everything looked blurry but, it should have one!!! try looking in the back panel... If it does'nt, I personally would'nt recommend you to work inside unless you have enough experience in working with such equipment to change the polarity :) However, it can be done as long as care and SAFETY are the number one priority when working with this equipment.
Hope this helps and good luck in finding a user's manual unless you already have one :)

Respectfully,
Henry