Hmm... sadly the AWS pub that your post references seems (solidly) to confirm AWS being in the middle of things.
Here's the catch 22, if I have the AWS keep my records (at $50 per cert per year as I recall), I can send them the paperwork and the Q&C (defined as the AWS Q&C group) will update the cert. Since I have about 20 certs (and there's no discount on qty), this would cost me a lot of money to keep them all on file with AWS. If I keep them on file with the local R.O.P. and have them stamp my maint. log, I'll stay current w/o paying hundreds of dollars a year to AWS to do the same. By the code refered by Lawrence, the welder's responsibility is to have the company, contractor, etc sign off but then to get it to Q&C before the cert expires. Since AWS Q&C only maintains those certs if you pay them to, you are req'd to pay a ton of money (my case) if you want to keep all those certs current. My wife and I both (briefly) have:
VertUpButt = 18AWG 6061, mild steel, galv, s-steel -- GTAW
VertUpButt = 10AWG 6061, mild steel, galv, s-steel, 4130 -- GTAW
VertUpGroove(3G) = 3/8" 6061, mild steel, galv, s-steel, 4130 -- GTAW
6G = 2.5" sched 40 pipe -- GTAW
VertUpGroove(3G) = 3/8" mild steel, galv, s-steel, 4130 -- GMAW
VertUpGroove(3G) = 1" mild steel -- GMAW
VertUpGroove(3G) = 3/8" mild steel -- SMAW
VertUpGroove(3G) = 1" mild steel -- SMAW
We could drop some of the lesser certs that are covered by others (1" covers 3/8") but still, it would cost us a lot of money to keep all these certs current if we had to have the AWS maintain our records so that we could simply mail in our logs as this spec calls out.
Is the AWS listening/reading this thread?
Is this really the intend of the AWS (to force welders to pay them money)? or can this simply be maintained by the welder and company, inspector, contractor, etc.?
Steve
It does seem like AWS has you on the hook for a lot of money!! That is the price you have to pay to keep all those cards current. Dropping them to get your renewall fees down doesn't seem fair to you either. It would probably be just as expensive, however, if you were to re-test (even by yourself, locally) every year. It would seem reasonable that AWS could consider giving a price break after you had some given number of their certifications under your belt. I will broach this idea to the AWS Certification Committee. But, please remember that The Certification Committee has no say in AWS Pricing. There is a separate Pricing Committee for this purpose.
The sad thing is, that many contracts these days are requiring new Qulification / Certification testing of the welders each year, and even in the last six months!!. The owners have encountered so much fraud and so many "Certified", yet incapable welders, that things are regressing back to the bad old days of "Certify on the first day on the job", just to be sure that the welder really can "STILL WELD"!.
Unless there is some specific contract specification that requires that your work record be attested to by a CWI, there is no general requirement in the Codes. I am third party QA inspector, and I have to accept work records when they are presented to me by a company that has an active / functioning QC program. However, I can also avail myself of the provisions of the Codes (that I inspect to) that allows me to require requalification of welders who do not produce acceptable welds. I have frequently done this in the past.
The CWI signature does not always carry the credibility you would think is does when it comes to verification. It depends on who is hiring you. If you are self employed, you should be able to certify yourself. As the employer, you are legally required to certify the employees in most states. Now, you must also do this in a credible manner, and therein lies the technical difficulty and the continuing credibility gap. It can be done. I certified myself for many years as the owner of my own company. I eventually got a NYSDOT Cert Card, thich required that my work record be signed off by a P.E. I took pipe tests with a few contractors, and added them to my collection. Some customers accepted them, others required a demonstration or requalification test when I got on the job, depending on the contract documents. I kept a log book of my welding activities for many years. This was only asked for maybe a dozen times in 20 years!
I don't think you are going to find satisfying answers to your problem here. I think it is admirable that you are trying to do the right thing here, and I hope you are able to keep up the high standard you are demonstrating here.
Best of Luck
Joe Kane
Joe;
Sadly, at our age and with the frequency of walking into walls, closed doors, through plate glass, etc., I understand why a customer would want to see you (and me) demonstrate our ablity to run a straight bead without wandering out of the groove. ;)
Best regards - Al
BWHAHAHAHHA!!
I have been fortunate in the fact it was always a contractor or employer paying for a card. Sometimes I wish welding was regulated like electrical work and plumbing etc. Some legislation to help the "certified" make the pay they should and help maintain our records more centrally. Jeez $50 a year per card?? Well that just sux for the self-employed who need that card to even be able to bid on that job. Sounds like we need a "do-all" test ...unlimited everything in all processes....we could all just take out 20yr loans to pay for the testing LOL!! Why don't like electricians have to certify like "oh well we know your qualified on a 200 amp service but this is 600 amp so you have to go get a certification paper" $$$ Or hey mister plumber this house has radiant heat as well as a solar hot water tank + there is 4 toilets your only rated for 3 so.....see what I mean? Nothing wrong with AWS and ASME helping make sure we have a system of doing it the right way....but I wish the Trade was more organized than it is...I think we missed the boat on that one.
As far as I can tell Welding is the only proffession I know where you must constantly PROVE your skill and ability in order to work....doctors,lawyers,engineers etc. may get supplementary education from time to time but do not have their knowledge and skills tested regularly to perform thier duties. Man I am proud of what I do!!!!!
Steven_OHarra, the affirmative answer to your question is there is absolutely NO REQUIREMENT to have a CWI sign your continuity log <end of that discussion>. There are several options, have you considered requesting your customers to sign on successful completion of a project? Virtually anyone who has some level of competance in what a satisfactory weld should look like could perform this task... your customer should know what they want but if not, there is nothing wrong with having your wife sign yours and you sign her's. Anyone who has any doubt in either of your competance can request a performance demonstration. <end of story>. All the other chatter is simply opinion and speculation.
i agree, no requirement for cwi to sign log
And that's the way it is!!! :)
Respectfully,
Henry
Thanks to all that have toiled to answer this for me.
We'll keep our continuity log signed by the local R.O.P. CWI's and then if and when we move, keep them up to date as most of you have recommended.
Its a shame the AWS is multi-cert aware with a $10/6mo. fee (checkbox for all witnessed processes) but nails you so heavily per cert to be the record keeper of each and every cert. I'd rather have the centralized AWS as the keeper of the records but in an industry that could require dozens of certs (type metal, thickness, joint, filler, position, etc), it is simply unthinkable (or at the least, unaffordable).
By the way, besides the welding hobby, I'm a retired US Coast Guard officer, ASQC certified quality engineer and Novell Engineer. Not to quabble but they too require constant requalification which is why I have let those lapse as I get closer to retirement and welding in a future hobby shop. I'd like to teach at a local school and want to keep the certs otherwise I'd probably have to let those lapse as well.
Again, many thanks to all!