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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / sa 200
- - By tompit9 (***) Date 07-28-2007 18:25
ive just about finished working on the welder. down to getting a coat of paint. has a new alternater, rebuilt starter, plugs and plug wires, new gaskest, rebuilt carb., new reostat, elect. idler. now I start the welder up. it runs great "but", I try to stick and minimal arc. plug a grinder in nothing. OK i turn up the range and reostat and smell "SOOOMETHIIIING BUUUURNIIIIING" I can see the thread that is rapped around the copper winding burning so far thats the only thing I see burn. SO WHAT COULD THIS MEAN ! PLEASE HEEEELP! THANK YOU TOMMY
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 07-29-2007 07:44
Generators make electricity because the windings are full of smoke. When the smoke comes out they can no longer make electricity. In that case You need to send it to a rebuilder who can put new smoke in. On a more serious note, what was smoking/burning? Was it the armature [part in the middle that goes around] or the stator [windings mounted to the housing] There are actually 2 sets of each, the little one on the end is the exciter, the other larger one makes the welding power. I might be able to give You some guidance if I knew which parts got hot. Did this machine ever work since You have it? If so what has been changed, modified, taken apart and put back together etc. Once hot enough to flame the parts will need to be rewound, as the insulation on the windings is a varnish, and it has burned off. This alows the windings to short against each other and the part they are wound around.
Parent - - By tompit9 (***) Date 07-30-2007 03:42
I can see the thread that is rapped around the copper winding burning so far thats the only thing I see. when I turn the reostat up thats when the arm. starts to smoke. so i quikly turn the machine off. this help any
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 07-30-2007 03:46
Is this the exciter armature or the main armature?
Parent - - By KSellon (****) Date 07-30-2007 14:27
You have miswired something. Sounds like you are putting welding voltage back into the coils instead of to the output circuit. Forward machine info to me and I will fax you a wiring diagram. ksellon@billswelderrepair.com
Parent - - By tompit9 (***) Date 07-30-2007 15:49
'55 model shorthood-f162-i have upgraded to a elect. idler. Yur info will help, all in all i think i just need to take i to some one whp really knows what their doing. this is only the second unit for me to rebuild. Thank You
and its the main armiture
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 07-31-2007 03:37
For the main armature to be overheating, I am thinking the output must be shorted, to each other or to the lamnations [the steel part the windings are wound on. Did You change the brushes? is there any posibility the leads are interchanged, or that any insulators are missing or damaged? Do You know for sure that the machine was OK before You worked on it?
Parent - - By tompit9 (***) Date 07-31-2007 15:34
that the deal, i have replaced the main armature. the main arm. i took out had burnt up (burnt the copper wires through the arm. into. so it never worked befor i started working on it. i have an idler upgrade, and from the arm. housing i have a wire that comes from there to the outlet (that goes to the hot side of the outlet)do i need a nuetural to go somewhere? ok, i have two more wire that come out and had went to the vacuum idler. but the upgrade shows to go to the rheostat(dont know which ones goes where, both are the same in color).
my leads should be--- ground on the left and stinger on the right(just to make sure), RIGHT?
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 08-01-2007 04:27
I would suggest You take the armature back out and to a shop that can properly check it, this one may be toast. If the armature was any good to start with there is a short somewhere, and it is a heavy duty connection, not a little wire, or the welder which is capable of about 300 amps would have just burned it off. You might seek profesional help with this if You cant find a short and think the armature You put in was good.
Parent - - By KSellon (****) Date 08-02-2007 19:00
Give me your fax number, I will fax you a wiring diagram for the original as well as for the idler upgrade. The little wires you are taking about actually come from the exciter coil circuit. If you have it wired improperly you will put weld voltage back into the coils, etc.
Parent - By tompit9 (***) Date 08-03-2007 06:46
I myself don't have a fax, but I will get one for you ASAP. Thank You
Parent - - By tompit9 (***) Date 08-03-2007 17:50
could you call me at 817*829*4622
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 08-04-2007 03:53
Another thought on this, did the engine seem to be heavily loaded when the problem occurs? If the output was shorted, I would expect it to put a lot of load on the engine. Was there a lot of arcing at the brushes? Do You know FOR SURE that the armature was good?
Parent - - By tompit9 (***) Date 08-04-2007 06:54 Edited 08-04-2007 06:57
not totaly for sure, I had it ship in from Mich. The guy said it was working. he parted out the unit he had. all he needed was the motor.
when I had the vac. idler on it did bog.
now the way it is hooked up when i turn the reostat up it bogs a little. and thats when it started to smoke.
give me a call if you dont mind 817*829*4622maybe i can explain it better over the phone.
Parent - - By KSellon (****) Date 08-07-2007 14:49
Usually if the main armature is shorted it will throw a green arc to the brushes. This is very noticable. With the engine loading up when you turn the rheostat that tells me you have miswired the the output circuit. Somewhere you have the machine putting weld power going back into the machine. I left you a message.

You have heavy cables coming out of the generator housing as well as 2 #12 wires. The cables go to your selector switch and one to your positive output stud. One wire goes to one side of the rheostat and the other to the idler board you installed with the upgrade. You then have 2 wires that come from you exciter circuit, one goes to one side out your 110 outlet and the other goes to the same terminal on your idler board as the generator wire. You will need to call me for more info.
Parent - - By tompit9 (***) Date 08-07-2007 18:01
no arcs. at all at the brushes, i've got the very, very small arcs. i'm thinking that i've got a wire cross. cause also the idler does not kick in. i have a wiring diagram, when i get the shop maybe i can fax it to you. the idler upgrade come for hybriweld, out of loisiana. if you have a fax #.
Parent - - By KSellon (****) Date 08-07-2007 19:53
405-232-5264. As in the it won't go to high idle or won't idle down?
Parent - By tompit9 (***) Date 08-08-2007 06:41
guess you were busy yesterday I called around 2:00pm. yes, no high or no low. i'll get the paper work on that idler and fax it to you later today. i'll try to call again. thanks for help
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / sa 200

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