D1.5 TC-U5-S Reinforcing Fillet Weld Measurement

By QA666 Date 08-29-2007 19:36

The AWS D1.5 TC-U5-S joint detail shows a fillet weld on top of the deposited groove weld. However, the commentary section C2.8.1.1 (last para) allows this reinforcing fillet weld to be " made integrally" in the groove weld, which now makes it hard to measure. It is my understanding that they are just looking for a more angled transition between the flange and web at the toe of the groove weld to allow for better stress transition and if you can wash the groove reinforcement up enough to give you this angle/transition then it is acceptable.

I will try and attach a photograph of how we are measuring the contract specified 1/4" reinforcing fillet weld. We figure if we have the required ¼" throat we should have the required ¼" fillet and angle/transition. We are using a standard fillet throat gage to measure this.

Would anyone agree this an acceptable way of measuring this reinforcing fillet weld? Comments/suggestions.

Attachment: TC-U5-SReinforcingFilletWeld.pdf (56k)

By Bridgeman69 Date 08-29-2007 21:02

The contract specifications govern this fillet. A fillet measure what a fillet weld measures. The picture you have shown indicates that this fillet weld has excessive concavity. Case Closed.

Fabricators want to weld this joint in the flat position and also get a reinforced fillet weld, hoping that the Inspectors interpretation that this fillet weld is "Not Important"

Contrary I say !!

AWS puts a little wiggle room with C2.8.1.1 (made integrally" in the groove weld) does not waive the requirements of a checking a fillet weld size.

The Design Engineer can be the "Only" person to waive this requirement.

By spiedan (*)

Date 08-30-2007 12:06

Bridgeman,
Did you look at the second picture? I agree the first picture shows excessive concavity, but the second picture shows an acceptable weld. Our in-house QC people and the various states QA inspectors we work with routinely regard this (second picture) weld profile as acceptable.
Dan

By QA666 Date 08-30-2007 12:38

Yes I would agree the second picture is acceptable. I included that as an example of what we are accepting and what a 1/4" reinforcing fillet weld should look like. I did note that on the photograph maybe you just missed the note. The first picture as you said and agreed with is a rejectable weld and is what we are rejecting. Thanks for the input!

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 08-30-2007 13:17 Edited 08-30-2007 16:21

It is my opinion that the fillet weld reinforcement is acceptable. The throat measurement appears as it would meet the requirement for a 1/4" fillet weld. I have not seen a D1.5 so I may be off in left field.

In D1.1 this fillet weld is specified as T1/4 so the size would be related to the base metal thickness. AGAIN, I do not have a D1.5.

Gerald

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 08-30-2007 17:16

Here is a sketch that I think represents what you have. I would think that if that is the case, your fillet weld size is OK. The blacked in area would represent what would be required. Someone straighten me out if I am missing it !

By QA666 Date 08-30-2007 18:52

Nice drawing!
I guess this is the argument I have been given. However, if you look at the joint detail it calls for the fillet weld to be on top of the groove weld reinforcement. In otherwords the angle of the face of your drawing fillet weld in black is the angle that the weld face should have in your drawing and you have done a good job of showing that it is not the same. The fillet is below the groove reinforcement not on top of it. It's the angle of the weld at the point where the fillet weld meets the flange that is important. From what I understand this is to make a less sharp corner but a smoother transition for stress transfer reasons. It's a complicated issue to explain. again good drawing.

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 08-30-2007 19:13 Edited 08-30-2007 19:15

With No Access to the specific code or the drawing, I am just throwing things out there. If the code or project specifications do not address the re-entrant angle of the toe of the weld, this would be hard for me to reject. How does one know how much re-inforcement was under the fillet weld before it was placed there ? What if it had all been ground to hide the individual beads. It would then appear as maybe a 5/16" or 3/8" fillet weld with a concave contour.

Gerald

By QA666 Date 08-30-2007 19:34

Gerard,
Unfortunately you do not have D1.5. However, I think we are close to understanding eachother here. Your frase on the re-entrant angle of the toe of the weld is exactly what the issue is. As far as the code not specifying this, they do, by showing on the joint detail that the fillet weld is on top of the groove weld reinforcement. How much reinforcement is there is not an issue. It is then up to the designer to specify the fillet weld size in our case 1/4". which means you want the re-entrant angle of a 1/4" fillet weld. The fillet is not there for strength but purely for the re-entrant angle it gives. As long as the groove weld reinforcement has the same re-entrant angle as a 1/4" fillet you are good to go, or have a seperate 1/4" fillet weld to achieve this angle.

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 08-30-2007 20:56

So if it were say an unequal leg filliet such as a 1/4" x 5/16" it would be rejectable due to the change in re-entrant angle ?

By Bridgeman69 Date 08-30-2007 19:15

Dan, I did look at the second picture and I too thought it was acceptable. If your in-house QC people and the various states QA inspectors routinely regard this as acceptable I would be the First person to say right on brothers. Thanks for some form of continuity.

I could be wrong in fact in 1996 I erred on the side of caution... just kidding. I thought QA666 was showing the second fillet weld as an example of an acceptable 5/16" fillet? Did I miss something? By the way the sketch is impressive (pipewelder_1999).

Remember read the whole darn thing before you ASSUME anything !!!!!