pipe test help

Date 09-02-2007 01:19

Cole, there are approx 63 ways to fit up a branch wrong. Could you be a little more specific on what he said and how you did your fit? Typically the branch is laid out, cut and then the branch is fit to the pipe.This needs to be a tight fit before you mark your opening. The opening is marked from the inside. Take a piece of soapstone and taper the end. hold it tight against the branch to mark it. You want the mark to be the same size as the inside of the branch. The soapstone mark should be about 1/8 inch wide. After the opening is marked remove the branch and check your mark. Touch up any missed areas. Use a 0 torch to cut the mark. Make your cut to the outside of the mark (toward the branch pipe). Take your time and keep this cut clean! After the opening is cut put the branch back on the pipe and look at the opening. If you did your job right the cut opening should be about 1/32 inch larger than the branch. Put a slight bevel on the opening . You want the branch edge to be square. Be sure the pipe is level and fit the branch to the pipe. Grind so everything fits tight. The points need to be square and the throat will need a big bevel. This is real hard to describe, but when you see it you will go Ah ah! This needs to transistion about halfway down the bevel from square to beveled. Clear as mud?
When you get it fit and ready to tack take a good gap in the throat. Almost the size of the bead rod. On the points, be sure you have plenty of gap. You can close up the gap on th epoints, but it is rather difficult to open it up. Even with wedges and a really big hammer. When you get the gap you want you have to be really careful about which way you take your tacks. You want to have about a 2 inch tack in the quarters. start toward the point and weld toward the throat. If you go the other way, it will close up the points. You can fight the throat, but if the points close up on you, you are screwed.
When you make the weld the branch and pipe should have a smooth bead. Remember, NO IP! THe inspector may cut you some slack on burn through, but not on inadequate penetration. Hopefully there was somebody else there doing a branch who passed. If not, dont be a princess, tell the inspector this is your first test and you need some help. If the guy is any kind of inspector he will at least give you some pointers on what you did wrong. Not always but most of the time.
Trying to write how to make a branch is like writing how to make love. Kinda difficult without being there.
Hope this helps some and maybe others can make it clearer or offer some better wordsmithing.
BABRT's

By Cole Welding (**)

Date 09-03-2007 00:18

the inspertor said that i had to much of a lip on the inside of the pipe and he wouldnt not let me trim on it to make it right. i just didnt know it was my first time to take it so its just a learning experience... i am going to find some where else to test and go back in 30 days if i can

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 09-03-2007 03:35

Take your time when you mark your opening. When you sharpen the soapstone have the bevel on the soap about 1 inch long. It does not take much pressure to make a mark on the pipe. Hold the wide side of the soapstone flat against the branch pipe. And move slow. Be sure the branch is fit against the pipe, ground beveled and ready to weld before marking your pipe. Again the opening needs to be SLIGHTLY larger than the branch. This is so when you raise the branch you get a true butt weld. I have seen more mistakes made because the points closed up than any other reason. Keep the faith. IF you missed your first and you only have a rough idea what is going on, you see one done then do a couple, you will have this game figured out. BTW, are you around the Permian Basin?
BABRT's

By Cole Welding (**)

Date 09-03-2007 04:52

thank you. i live near wichita falls texas. i have been working my butt off at work and at triing to learn how to pipeline by myself because there isntno one here to show me how.. i have been all the info i get on there and appliing it to use..... i thank everyone on here that has been helping me with info

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 09-03-2007 15:10

Also, Be sure there are no stops or starts in the points or the throats. What you are looking for when you tear this apart is slag. IF you do not have starts and stops in the area where the specimens are taken, you lower the chance of trapping slag. When you cut your coupons they will be two inches wide. You take 1/2 inch on each side for the nick so for all that weld you will only be looking at 4 inches of weld total. Once you get past the IP on the bead, the only thing that will bust you is slag.
BABRT's

By downhandonly (***)

Date 09-15-2007 01:29

hey there I've been reading posts about this 12 on 12 for a while and having never done one I'm wondering what it looks like. Is it the same as a Y-lateral just maybe a different name? Around here we just show up and test on the line on the small stuff put the green guys in first to make it easier for cut outs and then once they are shot go to it. Big inch usually we test at the companys yard with some coupons on skids or right on the line. just curious incase I gotta do one someday! thanks

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 09-18-2007 23:09

No, a 12 on 12 is a single pipe to a single pipe. A Y is two into one.
BABRT's

By chip.76 Date 10-17-2007 20:48

how do they do the reinforcements on the branch and the header and do they use the same size pipe? Or am I way off...

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 10-17-2007 22:15

This thread is on the API 1104 multiple test and no reinforcement is used. You are testing the welds.

By thomasyyz (**)

Date 09-03-2007 18:27

Don't know what else to add, as far as preparing the branch mark lines on each quarter and make a cross on the header, when you align the two pieces you will have it easier grinding where you need to make it tight. You can lay the stone paralel to the axis of the header with the sharpened edge separated from the pipe to mark what needs to be grinded and if there is alot to eliminate put the stone on top of a second stone for more height, hope this helps out.
Thomas

By rig welder6 (**)

Date 09-14-2007 03:18

is there any other test than the branch test, does the 6g 6" test for anything? Im trying to figure this pipe welding out or at least the test part. any help would be grateful. thanks

By aevald

Date 09-14-2007 03:40

Hello rig weldr6g, every one of the test that you hear of regarding pipe, or anything else for that matter, will be used to test for a very specific and sometimes narrow set of skills and applications. Forgive me if you already know this, from the tone of your post I am thinking that you are somewhat new to the trade, if that isn't the case please forgive me. Welding in general is a very broad field and because of that there are many different skills and requirements of welders involved in this trade. You will likely find that your interest in the trade will drive the type of tests that you will be required to become proficient in. A pipeliner will have a different type of skills set than a maintenance welder in a refinery, even though they are both welding on pipe. That is just one example, there are tons of others. As you look to decide where your interest are regarding welding of any kind or process you will need to do some research and ask some questions and possibly even get some additional training. Once you have determined the specific area of your interest then you will need to learn the proper joint set-ups, configurations, rod selections and sizes, techniques, machine settings, rod manipulations, and any number of other nuisances that apply. Keep asking questions and learn all you can to be successful with your endeavors. Best regards, aevald

By rig welder6 (**)

Date 09-18-2007 02:09

aevald, not that new to the trade, been on my own for 9yrs now and have graduated from tech school with welding degree, and have welded a lot of different stuff, 99% off my rig. From pontoons in Aug to skidders in Feb, just not a lot of pipe, welded bunch of steam line 2"-10"-12" all w/6010 up root, and 7018 up ofr the rest. didn't really know the right way, the boiler guys said do it like this and it should look like this when done, and it did, i must of done something right cause none of my joints leak. I was just trying to get a feel for this branch test, and if a guy can weld and can fit, is it that hard. the hardest test i've taken was all pos. unlimited thickness structural w/7018(I learned mostly on structural, and heavy equip.) so any help would be greatly app. thanks rig welder6

By aevald

Date 09-18-2007 04:14

Hello rig welder6g, as I said, apologize for any offense if you weren't a newbie. Even though you're not a newbie, in a sense you are one, if you're out of your element. You will be challenged in a whole new way if you are working towards fitting and being successful at welding the branch weld pipe test. It is a whole new breed of cat, even if you have done a considerable amount of pipe up to this point.
Before you get upset with me over saying that this is possibly different than the pipe you have welded up to now consider this, most pipe fits that require butts, elbows, reducers, tees, etc. can be fit without nearly the difficulty that is associated with a branch type fit. I would agree with you that if the fit can be accomplished properly then the welding will be somewhat similar to what you have experienced up to now. If you have made welds with the types of fits involving a branch then you can tell me to go take a flying leap and go about taking the test without any reservations. I do know that there are enough different challenges out in the welding world that even though I have more than 30 years in the trade I will always have something to learn and there will always be those challenges that I might not be able to conquer in a timely manner. You are certainly on the right track by inquiring about this process and everything that it entails. Keep on asking questions and if possible try to make arrangements to get with some folks that can show you how it's done. The real thing is definitely worth more than a thousand words when it comes to something like this. I am not out to offend you or to tell that you can't accomplish this, I just tend to stress to never underestimate the task that might lie ahead. Good luck and regards, aevald

By rig welder6 (**)

Date 09-19-2007 01:55

aevald. thanks for the input, 1 thing my old man told me was that you might think that you are a great welder, or may have been told you are a great welder but there is always some one out there that knows more or is better than you and that is who you learn from. saying that i would really like to find someone who could show me wats up with this sort of pipe, here in N WI but i don't think I'm gonna find them, so i'll just keep asking ?'s and try on my own. is there any other test that u can take to get a rig job in CO, or WY? just asking, still trying. thanks again for the input, its in the memory bank. thanks rig welder6

By aevald

Date 09-19-2007 15:07

Hello rig welder6g, I got to thinking here the other day that you had mentioned living in Northern Wisconsin. Is that close to Appleton at all(forgive my ignorance for being geographically challenged)? The reason for asking is that Miller Electric Mfg. is of course located there. The other reason for inquiring has to do with the fact that Miller has a rather substantial R&D department, when I was there I didn't get to meet their pipe welding crew, but I did meet with one of their welding machine program engineers. It is possible that you could make arrangements to get a tour and possibly during the tour you might be able to pick their brains in regards to your pipe questions. A bit of a shot in the dark, but you never know till you try. Best regards, Allan

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 09-19-2007 21:26

Hi Aevald!

As always, an excellent suggestion!!! Those folks out there in Appleton are very helpful and sure are devoted in giving their customers more than 100% on a regular basis, and are most hospitable!!! :) :) :)
I've been there a few times myself, and they sure know how to make you feel comfortable & welcome. ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By shorthood2006 (****)

Date 10-18-2007 00:05

you are very knowledgable, thanks for your insight on pipe. it has been a big help. thanks darin

By ZCat

Date 09-19-2007 02:27

The branch test is a pipeline test. You can get a rigwelding job in a refinery and take a Tig/Stick 6G, or Tig stainless or whatever it is they need, but you won't have to take a branch test.

By rig welder6 (**)

Date 09-19-2007 03:57

ZCat thanks for the info, do you know what kind of test they are doing in rifle CO, or is it prob all of what u said? thanks for the help. the tig/stick is that a tig root and stick (7018) rest? thanks again. rig welder6

By ZCat

Date 09-19-2007 10:07

no, I don't know what test they are giving in Rifle. It would depend on what code they are welding to, I guess.
TIG/Stick would generally be TIG/7018 for carbon steel pipe, you wouldn't often see TIG/5P type test, but I did hear of one like that when I was in Alaska.

By rig welder6 (**)

Date 09-19-2007 11:03

thanks