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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / AL HT Cracking
- - By rebekah (**) Date 09-04-2007 12:57
Hey

I have a three relatively simple weldments--Aluminum 6061--two ears .375 thick 3" wide and about 5" long welded to a .500 3"x3" plate. 
At the top of the ears are holes that I have a block bolted to to keep the ears properly spaced. 
So basically, I have a flat bottomed U shape.  (Touchdown!--they look like narrow goal posts.)
The plate butts up to the ears so the joints are an interior fillet weld and then an exterior u groove. 
The process for welding was to tack the narrow flats, machine the ugroove with a .375 ball nose end mill, weld the interior fillet welds and then the ugrooves which took three passes because the groove was just shy of .375 deep going for a full pen weld. 
I used TIG with mix of helium and argon and 4643 rod.
The HT process-which was put them in the furnace at 650F for one hour, rapid quench then age at 350F for 10 hours.  The point was to get them at least back to T4 but maybe up to  T6.  I am not trained in HT and told the engineers that along with a disclaimer that I would recommend them going to a ht facility if they wanted it done properly and that I wasnt comfortable with the task.  (My boss told me to just do it.)

Damn things cracked.

So here is the question.  One cracked down the midline of the weld, all the way around.  Another cracked at the point where the welded area meets the base metal.  (The third didnt crack at all, but that is just visual, I want to double check with dye before I send it out.)  What is the difference in those cracking patterns?  Also, and more importantly, if I break these apart and re machine and weld them, will the material stand the reworking?  They have already been rewelded once so this would be the third time...Surely the material is messed up at a granular level from being but through such an extreme process twice.  This is the second batch of three, I got the first to work which is why these are redos.  Could part of the problem be that they are overwrought?  I have one more batch to go so I would love to get it right the first time...

Any advice would be appreciated.  I think I brought this up in the forum before but couldnt find the previous posts.  It was awhile ago.

Rebekah
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 09-04-2007 13:25 Edited 09-04-2007 13:35
Lower current and faster speeds often prevent cracking.  Also, a change to a filler metal that brings the weld metal composition out of cracking range is recommended when possible.  Cracking in aluminum welds is due to the low strength or ductility of the weld metal or the heat affected zone at elevated temperatures.  A filler metal with a melting temperature similar to or below that of the base metal greatly reduces the tendency for intergranular cracking in the heat affected zone.  A filler metal with this characteristic minimizes the stresses imposed by the solidification shrinkage of the weld metal until any low melting phases in the heat affected zone have solidified and developed sufficient strength to resist the stresses.  Under highly restrained conditions, aluminum weld metal may crack if it does not possess sufficient strength during cooling to withstand the contraction stresses.  Weld metal cracking usually can be prevented by welding with a filler metal of higher alloy content than the base metal.  For example, 6061 alloy, with a normal silicon content of 0.06 % is extremely crack sensitive when welded with 6061 filler metal.  However, it is readily welded with 4043 filler metal, which contains 5% silicon.  4043 melts at a temperature lower than that of the base metals for which it is commonly used.  For this reason, it remains more plastic than the base metal and yields during cooling to relieve the contraction stresses that might cause cracking.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 09-04-2007 15:35
IMO, you have two things going here. When using 4643, and alloy of lesser Si than the more popular 4043,and therefore lesser wetting, or more viscous flow, welders may have a tendency to increase current to compensate. The very thing you do not want to do with 4643 since the additional Mg (.2 in addition to that from dilution-.6-and that which makes 4643 mildly heat treatable) also puts it closer to the crack sensitive range. Slightly to be sure, but more nonetheless(you seem to be on athreshold since some cracked andsome didn't).
I believe the centerline cracking is predominantly related to too high a heat input and increased Mg2Si precipitation, and the edge cracking is related predominantly to increased BM dilution, and therfore higher Mg2Si. Differing emphasis but essentially the same result.
This analysis in addition to Scotts', not in contrast to it.
My guess is, the weld that appears good was probably run with lower heat input, maybe even a welder with greater skill not cranking it up as much. Just a guess though.
Scott is right, cool it down.
Since your application is high thickness and PWHT 4643 is a common choice to recover strength, but this choice is also more crack sensitive than the more popular 4043.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 09-04-2007 15:10
Rebeckah

I'm not sure when they cracked....

I'm supposing all the welds were complete and the cracks were identified during post weld treatments?

The post weld heat treat is above my paygrade, so I'm going to talk about process and technique.

I think the first and best answer would be to change processes... GMAW is much better suited for a project like the one you describe... But that might mean equipment and training delays... But if you are tooled up and are pretty good with GMAW or GMAW-P I think the heat input and metal deposition are more favorable for the type of joint you describe.

If you are stuck with AC GTAW, here are some technique tips that you may or may not be using already...

1,  As mentioned above, its best to move Fast...

2,  No concave bead profiles, (they are natural linear stress risers) Using the largest possible filler wire diameter will help cool the puddle and provide most easily for flat or slightly convex weld faces.

Your Shield Gas and filler choices appear to be logical.

What about preheat... Even a 250-300 degree preheat would help you speed up that first root pass and reduce internal stress.

With your less than orthodox heat treatment I think you may need to you all the tricks in your bag to keep internal stresses minimal that may come from your root and subsequent weld passes.

3, 
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 09-05-2007 07:07 Edited 09-05-2007 07:21
Lots of excellent commentary here...

Rebekah I thouroghly agree with welding advice given above....I will say trash the pieces you have reworked and start over....do preheat between 250-300f before you weld it out this will make things work out better.  I understand your choice of filler ....I would lean toward the 4043 because of elasticity...but you may not have that option here.....you will not totally restore these pieces to t6 condition thru out at any rate but you can get close. 

Like Lawerence heat treat is above my pay grade but I will comment on it (machine shop).   Raise your temperature to around 950-980 and reduce your time to 30 minutes  (30 minutes with the part at that temp ...not thirty minutes total).   At 650f you are not getting the parts hot enough to actually get a good restoritive HT.  When you quench make sure the water is room temp  and you have lots of it so it does not heat up.  A five gallon bucketfull should be adequate for the part you are describing.   A proper quench means that part will be just warm to the touch not hot at all.  After quenching straighten the part if need be (best time to do it) then leave it sit for at least a couple of days.   Then age it at  350 for no more then 8 hours and let it air cool natrually.   

I hope this works out for you

Best Regards
Tommy
Parent - - By rebekah (**) Date 09-05-2007 13:05
Hey thanks for the input.

Some clarification: 

The PWHT was done at 970F for one hour with the pieces put in before the oven was at temp and the time began when the temp reached 970F for one hour.  The quench was in a 40 gal drum of water--no way it got too hot.  The aging was done at 350 for 10 hours.  These numbers are from Vol 2 of The Metals Handbook 8th Ed.  I just got back from an ot-of-town install when I posted and remembered the numbers wrong.

I am using 4643 because that is the rec filler for HTing 6061, I am sure 4043 would be easier (it is what I would typically use) but I dont think that it takes any HT.

The pieces cracked after the PWHT, at the very end in fact.  The welder I work with is studying to be a CWI and she looked them over before the process began so I thought that they were technically okay.  Looking over them, after reading your posts, I can see where they were too hot or too concave.  I have basically been welding AL for maybe two years so I am no expert.

I welded the ones that cracked and the ones that didnt.  I also welded the previous set that didnt crack but my record is 4 out of 9 so that is why I am asking opinions.

I think I was running the machine at 200A so yall saying the heat might be too high is probably true.  What JS55 and others said about the heat input makes sense.  This project is the first that I have ever used 4643 so I am not at all familiar with it.  Looking at the ones that cracked, the weld bead looks grainy so it does appear that I cooked it.

What the hell is the paygrade for PWHT, I think I would have much preferred to refuse but that doesnt work in this job environment.  What would yall have done if asked to do something this complicated and out of your paygrade? 

Thanks again.

Rebekah
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 09-05-2007 13:46
Rebekah,
As soon as someone starts figurin they're an expert something will rear up and give em a reality check. We pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and dive into it again.
We do the best we can.
And as emplyees we generally do what we are asked to do. We don't learn if we are never asked to do things unfamiliar, so to speak. But we research, do our due diligence, talk to those who have been there, read, read, read, and take a shot. You obviously have done that, and done well.
You are right, 4643 is the recommended alloy for HT response with 6XXX's, due to Mg.
But with Scott, Lawrence, and TJ's advice you should see improvement the next time around.
Sometimes companies unreasonably expect us to nail it first time around. It doesn't always work out that way. But I think thats maybe the beauty of it. Long as we have enough butt left over after the chewins.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 09-05-2007 14:20 Edited 09-05-2007 14:23
Rebekah

Your doing Great!

Beyond my pay grade just means I don't understand what exactly is actually happening in the metal and so am not terribly comfortable giving others advice...

If I were in your shoes I would have done exactly what you did... Protest a bit and then go To ASM Vol 6 (I love that book) and follow what they set forth as closely as I can.

The "grainy" surface appearence is little bubbles of Hy that were trying to escape during the freezing process of the weld... Aluminum has an affinity for Hy and will drink it up out of the atmosphere when molten, when the aluminum freezes the Hy is forced out... During overheat conditions not all the Hy gets out and you see the grains...  The phenomina is most common at weld terminations or on thin Alum.  The large diameter fillers really are good at cooling a puddle and eliminating this... Also @ weld terminations, when you are tailing off on your arc, add one last dab of filler to make a convex termination and cool the puddle one last time.

4 out of 9 is all a matter of perspective  :)     If you are an egghead you might give yourself an F,  But if you are a sports fan you are batting nearly 500 and on your way to the hall of fame!
Parent - - By rebekah (**) Date 09-05-2007 14:49
I am definitely okay with not being an expert, In fact, everytime they send something off to be tested in the field I am amazed that the frame doesnt bust apart in a million pieces.  I am used to doing non technical absolutely not important stuff so this job challenges me every second.  Glad to have yall here to help me out and give me support.  I will try and post photos if I can of what I am working on. 

Thanks again.
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 09-06-2007 06:56 Edited 09-06-2007 07:43
Lawerence   "overheat"  I dont know if thats an official technical description or not but it sure fits the bill cause thats what it is.

Rebekah

I just referenced using the 4043 as a stopgap solution...you are using the right filler ( your right 4043 will not respond to HT at all) and its obvious you spent time doing your homework to do the job right.  With the description of the weld apperance it makes it clear as to where the cracking is coming from.....as already stated....that grainy apperance almost always is a sign of too much time in one spot or too much heat/not enough filler.  Keep that info in your hat because you will see a lot of "experienced" hands make that same mistake and then fail a RT or a bend test...keep it in mind and your better armed.  4643 will be less forgiving of overheat then the common 4043....I bet everyone is correct and thats the root of the issue.    Its nice to see you pulled a good reference out for your HT procedure....I was pulling numbers from a very rusty memory.   The time allowed for "setting" before aging tho is a common practice...it may be a wives tale or it may have validity...I could not tell you which as I am certainly no metalurgist. 

Getting challenged sure makes showing up for work feel better don't it?   My current job does the same and I am welding stuff that I did not think you could weld "by hand" a few years ago.   That keeps me going back everday....what will I have to overcome today to get it done.

Good Luck with it ...you'll nail it!!!
TOmmy
Parent - - By Sean (**) Date 09-06-2007 11:58
Have worked with the 4643 filler metal using GMAW with good results.  At the end of the day the part we welded was too big to do the PWHT ourselves and it was sent out for PWHT so unfortunately I can't give you a this worked for us story about it.

In researching this subject (we were considered doing the PWHT) we were going to use a similar HT process except we were going to heat and soak our assembly at a temperature of approximately 530°C (985°F) for a given amount of time (can't remember).  Keep in mind that the complexity and chemistry of the part have an effect on the heating/soaking temperature.  The heating rate and soaking time will also depend on the type of furnace used and the time to bring the through thickness of the assembly to the soaking temperature.  Can you pump an inert gas into your furnace to help minimize contamination of the Al during PWHT?  The assembly was to be quenched in cold water.  It was to be quenched as quickly as possible after the solution heat treatment to minimize precipitation...  you need to make sure that the amount of water you have will draw out the heat very quickly so that it cools your assembly to room temperature without interruption.  The colder you can get the water the better.  Also, we found that in our research that typically 6061 was aged at 160°C (320°F) for 18 hours; however, there are a number of curves that will work depending on the yield strength you need.

Just out of curiousity rather than going to all this trouble would it be possible to make things a little thicker to compensate for the lower strength of the assembly?

Keep trucking and at the end of this "adventure" you'll be able to weld and PWHT 6061 back to T4 or T6.

Sean
Parent - - By rebekah (**) Date 10-01-2007 15:18
Sorry to dredge this up again but one of the problems I was having was overheating of the piece.  The only size filler rod we have is 1/16th which would be part of the problem.  Unfortunately my local supplier is having a problem find the 4643 rod.  So far only Alcotech has it and only in a 10# box.  That would be almost $300.  Any ideas where I might be able to get a smaller quantity?  I hate to spend that much for one job, since we wont HT again for like 10 years.

Thanks
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 10-01-2007 20:18
Hello rebekah, is there any possibility that this alloy is available in a GMAW wire form and possibly a 1lb. spool or something similar? In that way you might also be able to find it in .045, or .035, or even .030, if necessary. Cut off a piece and straighten it out and use it as you would a regular filler rod. Just a thought. Regards, Allan
Parent - - By rebekah (**) Date 10-01-2007 21:10
I was just doing that today with some stainless, but it would be really easy to overheat it with the thickness of material I am using to do this job.  Thanks for the thought!
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 10-02-2007 10:04 Edited 10-03-2007 08:04
deleted for stupidity on my part
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 10-03-2007 08:06
ok I found no one who had any 4643 on hand.....but Rebekah you could take a drill and braid/twist up those 1/16 into a more substantial filler......for me its always been easier to use to big a rod on AL then too small of one......that might do the trick and make it work out without having to purchase more filler
Parent - - By rebekah (**) Date 10-03-2007 13:42
Thanks everyone, I think I will do the braiding technique with the 1/16 rod that I have on hand.  Strange that it is so hard to find...
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 10-03-2007 13:53
Hello rebekah, for possible future consideration, if you could find a cold-wire feeding system this might be an answer for some of the issues you are faced with. Just a thought. Regards, aevald
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 10-03-2007 14:24
4643 Also gives good mechanical properties in the as welded condition on 6061-t6 so it could be kept around the shop for other weldments if your worried about never haveing to use it again.  But it sounds like you have your situation under control.;-)
Parent - By rebekah (**) Date 10-03-2007 17:50
That is a good one to know, Kix.  Sometimes we have to repair something that the machinist messed up and need to remachine out--this gives me a way to make their job easier because they do complain when they have to machine over 4043.  Thanks!
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / AL HT Cracking

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