6G

Date 06-20-2007 15:42

In downhand welding your heat is genrally hotter then up-hand welding but you can have to much. not knowing what amps you are running makes it hard to answer your question, as undercut can be caused by excessive heat input as well as too fast a travel speed and incorrect rod angle and inclination to name a few.. Greg if you are seeking some genral knowledge on welding take alook at this text book I recently found it is a great source of how too in regards to welding and one of the best illustratated manuals that I have seen. "WELDING-Principles and Applications, Fifth edition." by Larry Jeffus , published by Thomson Delmar Learning. It also has a student syllabus to help study the manual which is great but it has to be purchased seperately. Their are most likely a couple other boys here with more downhand experience then I have who may be better suited to answer your question Sourdough and Downhandely come to mind.

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 06-20-2007 23:13

If the UC is on the bottom inside edge of the pipe, it is heat and travel speed. If it is on the top inside edge in the bottom quarter, it is rod angle If it is in the top quarter, inside edge, too much heat.
I am guessing you are using 5/32 rods for the bead. Be sure you have enough gap so you are not pushing the bead in. with the stringer As you are running the rod, the keyhole should be slightly larger than the rod. When you are setting the gap, you want the travel speed on the bead to be 6-10 inches per minute. If you get touches of UC, turn and burn the Hot pass using a stitching motion PUSHING in the bead. Travel speed on this will be 16 - 20 inches per minute. One does not want to grind too much on the bead when doing this. Especially on a test.Just enough to flatten the stringer bead. The wagon tracks will melt out. You can see it as you are welding.
With a SA 200 on 12 inch Set at 240 and 35-40 for the bead and 240 and 90 for the hot pass. Yup, she is a little warm on that hot pass. But you can push most of the undercut out with a good hot pass. Most schools will not teach how to run a proper hot pass. If the last three inches of the rod flames up, your heat on the hot pass is about right.
BABRT's

By Gregory Walker (*)

Date 06-23-2007 19:45

Thannk you I will give that a shot and see how it works out for me. I generally use 1/8" on my bead and 5/32" on my hotpass, fill and cap. It takes alittle longer but I want quality and presentation. I have been practicing with 3/16 for my fill and cap, but that it is alot of metal to carry for me yet and my puddle kind of gets away from me thanks again guys
Greg Walker

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 06-23-2007 23:16

If you are testing for a pipeline, they want speed. Very few will allow testing wit 1/8 on the bead. I do not. On 12 inch it takes forever to do a test using 1/8 and 5/32. If you cannot do a 12 inch 6G butt in less than an hour, most pipeline companies do not want you. Throw those 1/8 rods away for practicing a bead. Learn how to run a 5/32. Any welder can run a bead with a 1/8. Don't settle on being any welder. When you get that feel and sound down, it will be like riding a bicycle. Practice practice practice.
BABRt's

By Sourdough (****)

Date 07-12-2007 17:13

My my........guess I'm really no welder at all.......DAMN......all that practice!

Oh well, maybe I'm just a contractor.........I'm happy with 200 large every year..................

OOPS!

By Sourdough (****)

Date 07-12-2007 17:21

I just bid and got a sewer treatment plant job. Take your 12" stack and toss it in the breeze. Also take your 5/32 and do the same...

8" running in and out of an 18" baffle, no low hy...

I'll post the finished project on myspace.com

ps. Nobody will be prepping anything for me, and I don't have a bbq on my truck.......just hump, hump, hump, till the cows come home!

Oh, and kahunna, I've always been wondering why you took up welding in place of surfing...Hawaii, or CALIFORNIA????

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 07-13-2007 00:08 Edited 07-13-2007 00:25

SD,
Congratulations on your good fortune. You will make 200K this year. Things are good in the patch. If most of your work is 2-6 inch pipe, they you are right, 5's are not the right rod. 1/8's and 5's
However, what happens if you get a 8 inch job. Time yourself for 6 welds. 5's on the bead and 3's on the cap will save about 5-10 minutes per weld. Lets say you have 6 welders working. and it is 5 minutes you are saving. That is 30 minutes per setup. Over a days time it starts to add up. If you are doing 2-3000 welds the time difference your bottom line saving in manhours is substantial. And 8 inch is marginal. .156 wall 8 inch for field gas lines, 1/8 bead and HP, 3/16 smoke ring. Go to the next set up.
And I have NEVER see a welder who could run a 5 bead who could not run 1/8's. As a contractor, when you have a lot of welds to do, the faster the better. 5's and 3's are faster.
I know a couple of oilfield contractors i set procedures for in Hobbs who got clear on what they were giving up to their 75 dollar hour welders by letting them run 1/8 and 5 and they made them stop. But if it is just you, and you get paid by the hour and no savie hard dollar, continue on. You are being quite successful at your business and for who you work for. But if your business grows and you have to bid work like a big boy, YOU may run 1/8's for a bead, but those high dollar contract welders you are paying 75 and 125 sub will be running a bead with a 3 if you can get away with it.
The pipeline companies require the 12 inch test.
Not me.
I could care less if you are welding ceder post with bubble gum, if that is what the procedure calls for. But I do not want to test a queen drama or otherwise with 1/8's and find out he is having a 20% repair on the bead because he cant run a 5. It makes me look bad.
And I dont want to look bad.
And the gentleman's post dealt with learning how to run a 6G bead downhill. Did I give him bad advice for someone who has basic skills but wants to improve himself? I am living proof any idiot can run a bead with 1/8's. Who just wants to be an idiot? Why not aspire to be a craftsman. Always improving your skills and abilities.

BABRT's

By Sourdough (****)

Date 07-13-2007 15:27

You have my respect for not blowing up. That would have been my response. I learned how to run 5's before 1/8, so I'm hearing you loud and clear. I'm glad you opened up and showed your true, diplomatic colors. . . . .

By 2003440 (**)

Date 07-17-2007 23:14 Edited 07-18-2007 02:57

So i understand on a 12 inch butt test a guy should run 5/32 all the way out?I guess this includes the branch also,

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 07-18-2007 00:25

Nope, 5/32 bead and HP, 3/16 HF to cap. Branch the same. If the client does not have requirement I allow a 5/32 cap on the branch. Some companies will not allow that and require the 3/16 from HF to cap. Once you know how to carry iron, the 3/16 is a really fun rod to run. I hav an old short hood Lincoln SA200. Had it turned to 1480 rpms. Polished the brushes and that thing could stack iron. Smooth, slick and clean. Would run beads like dream but not enough UMPH for the hot pass. Even turned to maxiene, it just did not run the HP well. BUt boy, could it cap with 3's

By TozziWelding (**)

Date 07-18-2007 00:46

I will chime in, 1/8 root and hot. 5/32, and if my machine(old SA-200 for pipe) and I feel like running it 3/16 fill and cap. On an hourly job with no one up your arse, give me 3/32 and a cup of coffee.

By 2003440 (**)

Date 07-18-2007 03:04

Well thanks for the info just curious guys on the pipe gang are they running the old sa200s im sure on the firing line you see them,I had a classic 300d i did not think that machine could weld near as good as my 200 but when running 3/16 it will pull her down real good.its nice to hear all this great info from u salty guys!

By TozziWelding (**)

Date 07-18-2007 23:56

I am not a hard core Pipeliner, but the 300's I have run(as well as my Mller) want to snuff out or blow through at 3/9 O'clock. I hope JT chimes in on this subject, because this is his game. My 200, and my 250 absoloutly love to run 5P around a piece of pipe. Must be some of that Lincoln voodoo, but they are great.

By Sourdough (****)

Date 07-19-2007 01:12

My 300 classic wont stack, but it sure does'nt sweat running bigger rod.....

By 2003440 (**)

Date 07-20-2007 04:53

I know what your saying the 300d will dang sure run the heavy rod well i just could never get to where i liked running it i always found myself wanting the old sa200 back on my rig,however i cant say i wouldnt go get a new 200d my buds sure like the heck out of them i just dont need to spend the 9gs on one yet i doubt i will wear my 200 out any time soon well enough on this just my .02

By Sourdough (****)

Date 07-23-2007 20:30

2 grand for a welder - 2 grand.

2 weeks to get it running right - 200 bucks,

making a perfect weld - PRICELESS!!

1000 bucks a day - woooohoooooo!!!!!!!!!

By TozziWelding (**)

Date 07-25-2007 00:04

My $300 junkyard SA-250 is paying the bills now while the $4500 Miller is in the shop. Go figure, some times 50 year old technology is better.

By 2003440 (**)

Date 07-26-2007 04:19

I agree that the old machines are still great to run i hear a bunch of guys say that they are to expensive to run how do they figure, price a zexel inj pump on the kubota or perkins and injectors also adding fuel additive,ya the diesel machines are less thirsty but maint. and fuel cost put them right up there with the old gas sa200s,also how often does a guy have to dump big bucks in the old continental engines they are old school but they dang sure last.

By pipelinegator (*)

Date 05-08-2008 23:39

anymore help with that ol'200 is needed were do you set for most rods

By texasrigwelder (**)

Date 09-09-2007 23:27

man wat are u talking about u have to have a wider fit up for 5/32, there for its a wider bevel witch meens u gotta put more iron in her therefore taking longer, just take that 1/8 and skate on around her, and man an hour is forever, i run 1/8 in 30 inch

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 09-11-2007 02:21

Not on my pipelines! I catch a bead hand on the front end with a 1/8 and he is a ROMF. That is how cracked beads happen. You keep the travel speed at 8-10 IPM you get about 9 inches of weld with a 1/8 vs 12 with a 5. You make your speed on the hot pass and cap. The firing line makes you money the front end keeps you out of trouble. I have ran procedures using a 5P+ on x60 straight and can get 20 -24 ipm. But you have made a chitty weld! The grinder hits it and you set it on the skids and "CRACK". If you can get away with skating a bead in it, good luck. Do you get paid by the inch or the hour? And let me guess, you have never missed and x-ray or ever failed a test.

By 803056