Table 4.12 Welder Performance Essential Variable Changes

Date 10-11-2007 17:17

Agreed all the way around, except I do not understand the relevance of

"The WPS will be pre-qualified so note (1) doesn't count against it either. You would think it would but that's not how I read it. Looking back at the older posts, the same thing w/ shielded vs. self shilded, there isn't a difference as far as the code is concerned."

to the question at hand. In your example you are using FCAW-G in both situations.

But I agree, D1.1 does not make a change from FCAW-G to FCAW-S an essential variable requiring requalification.

By eekpod

Date 10-11-2007 18:24

Basically I was confirming that I didn't need to re-certifiy our welders because of the bigger wire size.

I was pointing out the old posts about the FCAW -G vs no shielding because I was surprised when I stumbled on it. Yor right , they don't have any relevance to each other in this issue. It's just that I automatically figured they would have to re test, and when I looked it up I was wrong and they are ok as is.

Escentially what I'm trying to point out (very poorly) is some things are very tight and restricted per the code, and others are not even addressed so you can do almost anything(within reason).
Chris

By pax23

Date 10-11-2007 18:58

Yep. It is a good thing too. A code should only be setting minimum requirements. When they are restrictive they should have a good reason backing that decision. When they have no evidence that controlling a variable will help ensure safe construction then they should not place any limitations on it. Is it really necessary to place wire size restrictions on performance testing? If someone thinks so then the burden should be on them to show evidence that there is a problem in not controlling it, and then they should submit a change to the code with that evidence backing the change.

As I reread this it kind of reads like I'm attacking you but I'm not. This is just a general rant. Cheers.

By eekpod

Date 10-12-2007 20:24

Not a problem, no offence on this end taken, thanks for confirming this question. Chris

By Kix

Date 10-15-2007 13:27 Edited 10-15-2007 13:35

I think you do need to recertify your welder if you go to a larger diam filler wire. p.138 table 4.5 filler metal #10 it has an x in the FCAW box saying any increase. Hope this helps. Oh this is for D1.1 though i'm not sure what code you are useing. I'm pretty sure the welder has to be tested to particular WPS or WPQR so if you test him with a 3/32 electrode then you need a WPS supporting that i'm pretty sure, but i've been wrong before i mean a lot.;-)

By pax23

Date 10-15-2007 14:10

Kix,

Table 4.5 are essential variables (EVs) for procedure qualification. They are not EVs for performance qualification.

When doing a performance test, yes, the test shall conform to an already established WPS (unless you are qualifying a procedure and welder at the same time through a procedure test but that is an exception), but that does not mean the welder, once he passes that test using that WPS, can only weld in production with that same WPS. The welder may use any WPS within his qualified ranges as specified in Tables 4.10, 4.11, and 4.12 (position, thickness, and other EVs). Since wire diameter is not a welder EV then the welder's qualification is not limited by wire size.

By Kix

Date 10-16-2007 12:39

I'm confused. So you say that a welder can take a performance test basically using what ever diameter electrode he/she wants ,whatever polartiy, whatever gas, whatever wire classification? All of the above are not listed in the performance EV's. Makes sense because when i was taking pipe tests i could use 3/32 rod or 1/8" rod, but i don't know about the wire classification, gas, and polarity. However they can only do this on the performance test right? When they go into production or into the field they have to weld to a qualified or prequalified WPS right?

By pax23

Date 10-16-2007 13:25

Absolutely, all production welding must be done to a WPS that is qualified (or prequalified).

By SamCMS

Date 11-10-2007 13:51

Hi guys,
I want to make sure I get this down correct too..example if welder qualified on wps for .045" wire, he still needs to take a test on another wps for 1/16" wire does he?
thanks,
Sam

By Bill M

Date 11-12-2007 18:20

His .045" welder qualification test allows the use of 1/16" dia wire as well. And as Pax23 mentioned, you need a qualified WPS for the 1/16" wire.

Side note: Our internal company qualification procedure requires our welders to qualify seperately using 1/16" and 3/32" FCAW wires. Some guys have no problem with the 1/16", and some struggle with the 3/32"...and visa versa.