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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / xray
- - By Sourdough (****) Date 10-05-2007 22:14
Okay, okay:

another xray truck pulled up to my last job..............."hello, my name is Jared - I'll be shooting your welds today".........

Big grin , "alrighty then".................

Shucks, it aint nuthin!! tee hee!
Parent - - By cwf07 (***) Date 10-05-2007 22:32
Do they xray or UT . Be nice so they done find nothing
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 10-05-2007 23:03
'nuthin found but code welds, baby...........
Parent - - By cwf07 (***) Date 10-06-2007 02:28
Thats good I hate inspectors that wants to fine something because they had a bad day.
Parent - By g32141 (**) Date 10-06-2007 04:21
That's unethical.

Most inspectors I know want to get the job done as quickly as possible without finding any defects even if they are having a bad day. If defects are found you'll either have to wait around until they are fixed or come back again another day to test them again.

I personally like to have everything go smooth without any rejects. It makes everyone happier. That's impossible though.
Parent - - By RANDER (***) Date 10-06-2007 06:30
Inspectors aren't your enemy.  They are paid to be there to ensure you make a quality weld.  Thats it!!  Some Inspectors may be too harsh on a welder but some welders may ask for it .   Ive had many that have said "Its only a little crack!!!"  The client wants a perfect welded joint, The engineer designs the "Perfect" welded joint, You weld the "Perfect" welded joint, I inspect the "Perfect" welded joint"  If you "F up" thats on you brother.  Can't blame anyone but yourself. I know....... damn those Inspectors,,,,,,,wont let me pull a John Wayne and weld anything I want to. But this isn't the wild west anymore so get used to it. Welders have bad days too and weld shitty welds.  Especially on a turnaround.  Too many beers the night before.  I don't want to find it -------I just do.   If you feel an inspector is making a bullshit call,,,,,,,Ask to see it in the code. At the very least an NDE report will state the reason for rejection along with the applicable code reference.   Since you are so good you should be able to verify that they made the right call. 
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 10-06-2007 07:38
I love those guys who say "I never failed an xray".....if thats the case you have not run that much weld under xray.   I do this daily...when I worked boilers every inch got shot.  I do not care how good you are...no ones perfect and you will make the occasional gouge out and repair.   I understand where Sourdough is coming from tho...it always makes you feel good when they come back with a clean shot...especially when its a field weld.   Rigid inspection and testing accomplishes two things:  It ensures somebody is getting exactly what they asked and paid for, and it separates the professionals from the guys who muck up the trade.  Some of the people I have had the most respect for in this trade are the inspectors who do their job like they should and don't back up.  My job is to weld it up with quality first and speed second...not to tell them how it should be engineered. 

My $.02
Parent - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 10-08-2007 03:38
My favorite is " This is just another BS test. I have never failed a test" If I have a line I am testing and some of the guys have tested for me before, the laughing begins. Not being a jerk, but what the hey. I love breaking cherrys. I have only one chance to check the quality of the weldor. Except for the occasional test booth queen, If they pass the test, on that day, they can weld. Few complaints from the field and over 20 years of testing welders has made my heart hard. Always been bit when I gave a welder a break testing.
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 10-06-2007 18:39
Most X ray hands don't run around with the code books, most often they are working to a written procedure, (or should be). Ask to see their procedure if you have reason to doubt the call. It should contain the acceptance criteria, or as mentioned the code if that is not present. Where a welder should have a problem is when the inspector is working from memory. I can't think of anyone with a 100 percent accurate memory.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-08-2007 03:24
Hello Gerald
                  I was practicing today and afte 3 attempte on 6'' what i thin is schedule 20 it's a 1/4 wall pipe painted outside ( yes i burned it off ) and rusted pretty good on the inside ( cleaned it best i could ) my question is on pipe with thias wall thickness what should the landing be or does it matter i'm asking cause i kept blowing thru on the root even had machine set at 40 and still blew thru was it the paint impurities in the pipe or the rust on the inside i got sum 3'' schd. 160 gonna play with that tomm and see what happens
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 10-08-2007 23:53
Sounds to me like you had very little land and that's why you burned through. You can still make these welds with enough speed depending on the circumstances. Try a much bigger landing and play with your gap size as well. You want to burn through and make a pretty little weld on the inside as well as the outside.

If your arc was also hard to control on your root, your landing was probably too small.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-09-2007 04:45
Thanks alot S/D thats exactly what was wrong the very first test i took was on 10'' easy i thought i was running the root w 5p+ 1/8 and man was it a b%$#@ to control looked like s$%^ tried to cover it up best i could but that just made it worse the guy even gave me another shot wow what a mistake maybe i should put a 1/4'' landing on it huh lol i got it pretty down pat today just have heel at the 4 oclock pos. dont know why anyway i'm going for my third attempt on that test tomm i'll put a good true 1/8 landing on it and pray. Well the truth is out now guess i don't have to ask for a job from you huh lol
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 10-12-2007 21:21
Your rod position is something to consider at 4 o clock. I tend to get a backward angle to burn ahead of my puddle. I go fast underneath and actually end up at the 7 or 8 o clock position.....
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-12-2007 23:04
thanks 4 the info but its a lil late and i'm dumb for trying to stop at the bottom anyway dont know why but i have it downloaded in my head you are suppose to stop at the bottom and do it everytime i'm gonna try to remember to run up to 8 oclock should turn out alot better i start repairing shades at a feedlot on monday not much pipe practice but it's money and i need that more now than pracrice i'm out of pipe anyway
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 10-14-2007 18:57
Sorry 'bout your woes - heavy sigh - but keep at it. Remember the first time you got on a skateboard or bike or skis. It sucked and you were intimidated, but it worked out just fine, right?
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-14-2007 20:32
not intimidated just out of time for practice i need to go find work to pay bills before i loose everything be it weld pipe or structural or fix feed lot pens i dont care jus need work
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 10-09-2007 00:45
Sourdough has given you a pretty good answer on that one.
Parent - - By cwf07 (***) Date 10-07-2007 01:05 Edited 10-07-2007 01:15
I agree I got good friends that are inspectors, I am just saying they are good inspectors and bad ones just like welders. I am going to do the job by the book. Alot of my jobs on bridge work comes for inspectors. And on beam splicing here in GA. they UT them I have spliced beams 2'to 7' with 1" webs and 3" flanges and never had a cut out.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-07-2007 15:21
I agree; some of my best friends are welders. My best "money makers" are some of the "worst of the worst" welders, and everyone of them is the "Best Welder Around". If you don't believe me, just ask them!

I wrote the above paragraph and I just had to laugh out loud as I did so. Why is it that the worst work usually comes from the self-proclaimed "Best _______"? Just fill in the blank with; inspector, mechanic, welder, ........

There are some really great welders, inspectors, engineers, etc. that we all have the pleasure working with over the years. Usually, you hear of them long before you meet them. "Their reputation precedes them" as one ironworker once told me. It's always an honor to work with them and to be able to associate ourselves with them.

As a welder, I always like the jobs with the "best" inspectors, because they made sure the work was performed to high standards and the welders that couldn't or wouldn't perform got run off the job in short order. It was job security and it allowed the good welders to do the job right.

As a welder and as an inspector, I find that most of the problems can be traced back to a foreman or other management that wants the job done fast at the expense of quality and if there isn't an inspector around, fast is the way it will be done. That isn't to say all contractors are the same. The contractors that have been around for years are usually the ones that do it right the first time, because the cost of repairs is what puts many of the fly-by-nighters out of their misery. Darwin was right, only the fittest survive, and in the world of contracting, being "fit" is doing it right the first time, every time.

I have a job that I'm working on right now where I overheard the steel contractor tell the general contractor, "Yea, every welder knows we're supposed to keep the lo-hi electrodes in a hot box, but no one ever enforces that requirement!" The general contractor turned to me and said, "Al, I don't care what the owner wants for inspections, I want you on this project everyday if you can fit it into your schedule, even if it's for an hour. I'll pay you if the owner says your visits are too frequent!"

Buddy, you just met the AWS Structural Welding Code and the grim reaper that knows how to read it! Let the fun begin!

"Hello Dear, book another week in the Caribbean, this job is a money maker!"

Here's to the true craftsmen of our profession! Those welders that can produce welds that are subjected to third party NDT and accepted on a consistent basis have earned the right to say, "I am a good welder".

Best regards - Al
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 10-07-2007 18:46
AL  
"I wrote the above paragraph and I just had to laugh out loud as I did so. Why is it that the worst work usually comes from the self-proclaimed "Best _______"? Just fill in the blank with; inspector, mechanic, welder, ........"

maybe its a psychological superstition  ...if they say it enough times maybe it will become true!  LOL

"there is no place like home, there is no place like home, there is no place like...."  
Parent - - By RANDER (***) Date 10-07-2007 20:24
After inquiring why they had an oven plugged in that didnt work, The foreman told me it was working yesterday.   Then he proceeded to say that he was going to get a working rod oven when they welded the joints that needed x-ray.   Nice....

BUSTED
Parent - By cwf07 (***) Date 10-07-2007 21:46 Edited 10-07-2007 22:09
I got 3 50lbs rod ovens on my truck and they can checkthem 24/7 and the rods will be hot.I plug them up on every job and when I get home.The only time they are not plug up is when I am driving down the road or in motels.
Parent - - By RANDER (***) Date 10-07-2007 20:27
I agree.  And I agree that some inspectors have a chip on their shoulder.  And that some try to play Engineer.  Most aren't out there just to bust a welder.  Its just a job. 
Parent - - By cwf07 (***) Date 10-07-2007 22:01
The only inspectors I deal with is bridge. The inspectors from the lab were we have to take our test are good smart inspectors but they are just a few of them. They can't go around to all the bridge and make sure everything is being done by DOT codes.The inspectors that come around might be concrete they know nothing about welding.This is the problem in Ga. on bridges I have with inspectors.I feel like if they are going to inspect welding they should know a little about it. If you have welded or fab you know blue prints don't work out all the time the way they were plan.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-08-2007 03:08 Edited 10-08-2007 03:12
And why aren't the ovens plugged in while you're at the hotel? Do they charge by the hour for use of the electrical wall sockets in the hotel room?

I admit I'm being a smart aXX, but make no apology for the questions.

Some contractors play the game of; "You can't inspect every job I'm working on, I can afford the extra costs on the jobs you do inspect." It isn't a big deal to get "caught" because there is not a big monetary consequence of their actions. It is simply a "cost of doing business". The only thing that seems to get their attention is a serious financial repercussion for their failure to do the work correctly. Fortunately, those contractors are a minority and don't usually stay in business very long.

I have developed a bit of a cynical attitude after working for twenty years as an inspector. I have no problem making a welder go back to repair welds two, three, even four times. I will make them retest, but that seems to do little to improve the quality when there is no knowledge of the code requirements. The contractors continue to send out the same "under qualified" workers time after time and make no attempt to provide the training necessary to improve the situation.

The engineer on a current project asked me to provide some direction for the contractor's people because it was clear they didn't know how to layout the work or what had to be done first. They showed up the first day with no supervision. I told the engineer that I was the inspector not the project manager or the welding foreman. My job responsibilities do not include determining the "ways and means" of accomplishing the work or directing the contractor's personnel. The contractor was awarded the job because they claimed to have the expertise required to get the job done (and they were the low bid). I hated to sound like I had no interest in getting the job done in a timely manner, but short of the contractor asking for my opinion, giving direction to a contractor's workers is a good way for an inspector to get into serious trouble should someone get injured or the smallest problem arise.

Along the same lines of reasoning, it is equally embarassing to our profession when an inspector shows up on the job site and can not read a basic drawing or has little working knowledge of the appropriate construction code.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By cwf07 (***) Date 10-08-2007 06:35
Thank you this is what I mean I don't care if you are cert. welder, inspector, or contractor, it is your job to know the code on the job you are working on. I didn't mean to come off like I didn't like inspector in the above paragraphs. That day I was on a bridge working splicing pile new contractor in Ga. will they were going to say money and like their guy fit them up and tack them off before I get their. Will he did had gaps you could drive a truck up and down, well the inspector on site said it was okay. They got mad at me because I wouldn't weld them. I got all the respect in the world for inspectors, but they have too show me they know what they are doing like I have to show them.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-08-2007 12:49
Amen to that.

It's a two way street. The work is completed with fewer hickcups when the engineer, welder, and the inspector have the proper training, experience, and respect for each other's expertise.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Aspirate (**) Date 10-09-2007 21:45
Amen to fitters that can keep a consistent root gap (and root face if there is any).

Lately, I've ran across jobs where gaps were not looked at after the fitter tacked them off.
Had to weld 1/4" gaps with 3/32" rod before where the foreman & inspector didn't give a hoot (not doing their job).
I guess they just wanted to getterdone like any job here in the south.
Fitment can affect many things, and a welder can only do so much.
Bad Fitment = more consumables and time to complete the work.

The best fitter I came across was an experienced welder that was going to drafting school at the time.
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-12-2007 03:56
do like they do in the patch anf knock sum fluxx off a 5/32 7018 and do some hippy heliarcin lol
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / xray

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