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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Stuck in the wrong local.
- - By Rah-Rah Date 09-30-2007 11:52
Hello everyone, I have a signifacant personal problem that I am haveing dificulty finding a resolution for. I am origanly from a Pipefitter's local. They taught me very well. I feel I am excellant at fitting, welding, and rigging. I grew up union and I was very proud of the union. Proud of our craftsmanship and our unity. However I was a member of a union far from my home of origin. I decided to move back and hoped to trasfer into the local fitter's U.A. at my home. I couldn't, the only other choice was the plumbers U.A. who needed welders for there gas pipe. This was the biggest mistake of my life. After being a member for the last two years I found that I can no longer work with these people. When it comes to welding and fitting they are completely incompetent. There isn't any one in the field who is any help at all I find myself working by myself on every project. Doesn't matter the size of the pipe, I can't use any of there help because they don't know how to. When they do try to help they just wind up watching me work. In addition to there complete incompetents there is no unity with these guys. The shops run the local, the men have no power, if you quit a job to go to better work conditions or overtime you are balck listed by the shops, who call the other shops and bad mouth you, then there are the B.A.'s who get pissy because you quit there job. Most all of the foreman are shopy sell outs who keep there jobs because the shops controll  everything. I have aplied to teach but have not been selected. Probably because my attitude sucks I am well known for being a plumber hatter. But I feel if you want the work you should at least know how to do the work. I find this local an embarasment of a U.A. local. It stands for non of the values of what I was taught were U.A. values. When this local has absorbed other combined locals in the past those men had a choice to go fitter or plumber some chose plumber and everyone that did are sorry they had. At least all the one's I have talked to. Our work conditions are pathetic to say the least.  I have continued to try to transfer to the local fitter's from the plumber's. But the fitter's are very aware of how pathetic the plumbers are and will not take any one from the plumbers local just so they dont get any of the wrong minded men by accident. I have begun to think about leaving the U. A. all together, and go nonunion. I dont know what to do at this point.
Parent - - By scrappywelds (***) Date 09-30-2007 18:28
I have been nonunion my whole construction career. It is nice only because if you done know your job, they will hand ya your walking papers. Not to mention you don't have to suck up to anyone to keep workin'. from what I have seen the trend in nonunion companies is better pay tha union scale and they are coming around to better benifits packages. Mostly. you have to pay for your insurance with nonunion companies, but arond my house even the union companies you have to pay now for insurance. I  have seen this trend coming for awhile, all my wife's family are Union Pipefitters and Boilermakers. I came up nonunion, I even tried to get in the Pipefitters local 633, with 8 years experience and I made 21 on the apprentice list with family members on the board.
Parent - - By pipefitter100 (*) Date 10-01-2007 02:49
as far as scrappywelds i have to say you need to try both sides of the fence before making replies like that ,the union doesnt really have much slakers in it thats, why we have a apprenticeship program,thats were the weeding out comes in,here in illinois we have the best fitters and welders ive ever ran across,it seemed to me as when i was working non-union the fitters were mostly white trash dope heads with little or no education,and with little or no skills just a lot of sh-t talkers,and the work usually had to be done over several times,as far as the bennies we have it pretty good,health,dental,eye,and retirement.
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 10-01-2007 22:37
quote-"it seemed to me as when i was working non-union the fitters were mostly white trash dope heads with little or no education,and with little or no skills just a lot of sh-t talkers"
I have worked both sides of the fence, and seen alot of dope heads on both sides,and because i was left on my own at 16 yrs old I am self educated,and on both sides of the fence I have been the one alot of guys would come to for help on something that was out of the norm. and that is just a fact,no sh-t talking here!
I  have studied at home on AISC,AWS and Autocad and have had students that went to school for those things asking me how to do certain things,sure i couldnt go to school for an education, and as far as the non-union goes, we have the same benefits or better,and some of the finest workers I have ever seen, AND we get to choose where we want to work!
your statement about trying both sides of the fence also applies to you! theres good and bad on BOTH sides!
Parent - By rtnnhazel (*) Date 09-30-2007 18:38
i am sorry to hear about your situation. i am a union man and woulkd try to stay that way if i could. does your ticket still say pipe fitter and plumber or did you drop the fitting all together? are still in good standing at your previous local? maybe you can get your old BA to give you travel papers then go and work out of the jurisdication of your choice and try to get your ticket in there. just my two cents. if the teaching thing works out you could start setting them straight from the get go. good luck
Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 10-01-2007 15:55
I take it you are laying down all this judgment with your self as the Yard Stick.

Is this situation affecting your pay check?

Quality of work is employer and employee issue and if their work is accepted by the employer woe be it for the Union to say other wise.

Have you spoke with the BA? Local President? You do not have to "Bad mouth" anybody to bring about changes.

Why not run for President of the local yourself a fix it? That might be an education. 
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 10-01-2007 17:43
Dam plumbers.  All they have to know is that sit runs down hill. j/k   We'd get a plumber on occation out in the field when we needed manpower and man they didn't last to long.  I had one look at me like i was crazy when i told him where we had to land this piece of pipe.  He was like how in the hell are you gonna do that.  I said with this rig and some chain falls and we'll float er in.  He was like what your crazy, so i said ok stay in the truck.;-)  I feel  for ya brotha!!!
Parent - - By Rah-Rah Date 10-01-2007 22:34
Hey Ron it does appear that I am an arogant ass. And this is true, however if I wasn't any good they would have gunned me a long time ago. These guys really do suck. When I was a fitter I was a good hand surounded buy other good hands. We could work off each other and we made each other better. Now I am on my own with nobody to run ideas past and no one to problem solve with. I fit 8 inch 10 inch 12 inch by myself on a daily basis. high low dogs and push pull dogs are my fitter. Plumbers cant handle 20 footers so everything is ten. I weld them back to 20 then move the length, fit it, weld it, then rig it. These guys have never seen any one that actually knew how to rig the pipe, so at this point I am very well known in the shops I have worked as a great welder but a plumber hater. As far as running for politics, I am not a politician. I have to big a mouth and to short a temper. This local was jacked up before I got here and will be that way long after I am gone.  And as far as trying to help solve the problem I aplied to teach these nit wits. They are not interested. It is same as usuall for them, they are not really interested in getting any better. I am very friendly with the Pipefitters in the field, actually only friendly with fitter I dont talk to the plumbers any more. And they dont know how I do it. These plumbers are well known by the fitters for how bad they are at fitting and welding. ultimately I am screwed. 
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 10-02-2007 02:10
Four things sure to stir some chit. Comments about religion, politics, union vs non-union, or negative comments about the union.
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 10-02-2007 03:16
I agree,and as long as people think 1 group is exempt from bad people there will always be arguments about who's better!
theres dopers and pedophiles in every walk of life, good and bad in the union and non-union, religious and non-religious, democrats,republicans,preachers even presidents!
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 10-02-2007 13:29
Some generic advice sure to fit any occasion:

The bus is coming and when it gets here it will make a brief stop.
During that stop we will have several choices to make.
  1) We can get on the bus.
  2) We can stand back and watch the bus leave.
  3) We can stand in front of it.

Only the first choice gives us a chance to change the course of the bus; and still there are no guarantees the bus will take us as far as we want to go.  But there are other busses going to different places.
Parent - By RonG (****) Date 10-02-2007 16:26
Well said Chet.

I got on the bus and wound up in the drivers seat. At times I sure miss the days when I could just aimlessly do only my job right there in front of me and at quitting time the job did not follow me home.

Yea I am well compensated and I can handle the technical aspects fairly well (even enjoy it) but the Human side of it can be bewildering. Makes you feel like the bus ran over you and is dragging you along under it sometimes.

My issue is that sometimes people forget how and why unions came in to existence. My dad and uncles have told me many times what it was like before unions.

Rah- Rah.

Arrogant perhaps but not sure about the "Ass" part. Arrogant is not always a bad thing if it is tempered with understanding of your surroundings. 

We all have our own ambitions or goals and just because someone elses do not coincide with yours it does not make them lesser than you. You obliviously have no interest in any of their concerns so why should they be concerned with yours?

I bet they have been there longer than you though and probably have been thru a lot more than you. The way I see it you have 2 choices. You can leave or you can relax and quit letting their inadequacies' give you heart burn and get on with your life. 
Parent - - By johnnyh (***) Date 10-02-2007 16:47
Welcome RahRah to the forum.  I see you have already met some of the fellas.  If that teaching gig works out this is good a place for advice if you dont piss all the smart ones off. 
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 10-02-2007 17:39
Just don't get yourself hurt.  Show up and do the job to the best of your ability and collect a check every week.  When you need a hand take a guy under your wing and tell him what cha need help with.  When working out of someone else's L.U. do as they do and don't tick anyone off unless safety is an issue.  It sounds like they don't work as hard as you so back er down a bit and be safe.  You get paid by the hour so just give em an honest days work and get done what you can get done without running yourself into the ground.  I'd play dumb to if I had some guy come in that was going to show me how things are going to be.  If you get on these guys bad sides then you will never get anything out of them.  Wait till you start running work for one of those contractors and you have all your guys lay down on ya cause you put a bad taste in their mouth.  You know as well as I do that you need to be able to adapt to your surroundings on every job and people are in that category.  Anyway, there is a ton of work blowing up all over the country right now and the U.A. steamfittters and pipefitters need men.
Parent - - By strat (**) Date 10-03-2007 02:02
After reading this post it reminded me of 12 or 14 years ago i was working for Alstom Powers building HRSG's and doing service work and we was nonunion. Well in Mass. there was a new boiler going up and we built the Once Thru's and they were allready set and tied in.The engineers had screwed up the placement's of the drains and after hydro they had a very hard freeze and what water was still in the tubeing (1 1/2" and 2" and 2 1/2" ) had froze and cracked some of the welds. The tubeing was T91 and the boiler makers were in there cutting out welds and rewelding with a high reject rate. Then the owners called Alstom Powers for advice on welding 91 grade material and instead of giveing advice they sent my a;; and my welding partner to Mass. to help out. Big mistake at first cause when those guys heard we were coming they were cocked and ready, man they hated us, talk about a uncomfortable feeling. The first day there my partner and i went to the back of the boiler, crawled thru the manhole and on the other side there was just enough room for two people and they were 17 tube to tube welds and 5 tube to header welds to make so i told him me and you will go ahead and nock these out, there was a man just on the other side of the hole and he heard me and told us to come out. When we did they were about 25 guys standing in a circle and told us to COME HERE then that same guy told us we will not work together (my partner and i),we do not like you,and we do not want you here. I'm like f this just put me back on the plane but i stayed , and i ended in the back were i was at with one guy from Maryland that didnt say two words all day,  my partner was toward the front on the other side of the boxes with about 12 guys trying to weld while they cut his argon line. After the first day i made 4 welds my partner made 2. That night they come in to shoot and the next morning when we got there they were still shooting so we went in the turbing room to wait, as soon as we walked in all the union guys were there and i remember one of them hollering ( I DONT KNOW HOW YOU GUYS DO THINGS IN S.C. BUT HER IN MASS. YOU FIX YOUR OWN FU$%#%$& REJECTS  SO YOU BETTER HAVE BROUGHT YOUR F#$%#$% GRINDING SHIELD) but you know all of ours shoot good,the fact is we didnt have any rejects. After a couple of days a few of them started talking a little and the guy from Maryland turned out to be a pretty good dude. Now im nonunion and have nothing against the union for i no little about it and i guess those guys felt intimated from our presences but we were only there to help because some of them havent done a lot of 91 and we were just trying to show them a few tricks to welding it.
Parent - - By pipefitter100 (*) Date 10-12-2007 03:38
Hey Strat,Where in the hell did you learn how to tell a story?S.O.B. Son that was like trying to read a retards story!
Parent - - By johnnyh (***) Date 10-12-2007 14:01
pipehitter100, you just showed how bright you are.  Keep using the word retard until you use it around someone whose kid is afflicted and you get your ace lit up.  Now put your monogoggles back on and get to grinding.
Parent - By strat (**) Date 10-12-2007 20:17
hey pipefitter100

no one told you to read the f%^% ng story, have a friend who,s kid is afflicted and after your reply the H#@$ with you and you wont have to worry any more about my retard stories any more for you wont see strat on here again
Parent - - By RANDER (***) Date 10-13-2007 04:53
Good story Brother. . Stay here and keep posting .   people say stupid things - Ive done it and so has everyone else.  Hell I usually cant make a post with that many words!!!

Keep Posting!
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-13-2007 21:02
[deleted]
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 10-13-2007 21:17
Qoute "Union versus non-union; if you like to work non-union, get little in the way of health benefits, paid holidays, or pensions, and pay no union dues or working assemments - knock youself out. If you want the security of a union environment with paid holidays, pensions, and health benefits; there's no free lunch, pay the union dues and working assessments and stop whinning."

I for one have alot better bennies being non-union, i've worked both sides and can honestly say the bennies where im at now are better! 25% match and 4% of yearly earnings in pension aint bad,health is about the same,with full dental and all the paid holidays plus profit sharing!
Parent - By Root Pass (***) Date 10-16-2007 02:23
Good story Strat. Made me feel like I was right there with you and those yankees watching in amazement the whole time!! L0L
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 10-14-2007 18:00
I have worked Non-Union for 20 years.

I have NO retirement, received NO insurance, BUT
could work ALL YEAR LONG, PICK MY JOBS, WORK AS HARD AS I WANTED, RUN MY OWN EXTENSION CORD, PUT UP MY OWN SCAFFOLD, WELD ON ANYTHING IN THE PLANT I WAS CERTIFIED FOR ETC.

I have WORKED UNION for 3 years after I had worked NON UNION.

I had to wait on a BA for a call or call around to other locals for work,
As an apprentice I was "taught" by 24 year old journeymen to "Slow down your working us out of a job"
If I welded too much in a day, I was looked down upon and talked about.
IN 3 YEARS I MADE 3K in PENSION/ANNUITY
I ALWAYS FELT SAFE ON THE JOBS
THE SKILL LEVEL AND KNOWLEDGE LEVEL WAS VERY CONSISTANT
I MET SOME OF THE BEST CRAFTSMAN IN MY LIFE
I met some of t he worst workers in my life.

I think as with many things, the situations vary greatly. I think the union is great but many of the non-union contractors I have worked for took good care of me.

I just love welding and anything to do with it. I know your in a tough spot. Good luck.

Gerald
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Stuck in the wrong local.

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