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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Need some smart people... Oil & Gas types
- - By jon20013 (*****) Date 10-03-2007 16:22
I need to become educated, as quickly as possible, about welding in extremely cold and extremely sour service applications... I've worked around sour applications lot's of times but not in very cold environments... How about folks?  No, I don't have any specifics on materials (yet)...
Parent - By Fredspoppy (**) Date 10-04-2007 15:26
Jon,
Of course more info is needed to provide much help.  One thing I can say is that you may face difficulty meeting both requirements, at the same time.  Sour service weldments (in carbon and low alloy steels) will require filler materials with less than 1% Ni.  Low temperature weldments, in the same materials, normally utilize filler materials with Ni, and depending on the temperatures, may require 2-3% Ni to meet impact requirements at low temperatures.

Depending on the "extremely cold" temperatures, you may have a problem.  I will look forward to more specific information on the subject.  Where is the work being done?
Parent - By webbcity (***) Date 10-05-2007 03:49
jon , keep us posted on what you need . i'll try to get you some contacts . i know they have been doing lots of welding in artic conditions . is this new construction or in service ? good luck . willie 
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 10-05-2007 04:08
I suggest a few things on this, first of which is sour service is a pretty standard issue in oil and gas. The extreme cold conditions such as found in prudoe bay, and parts of the canadian oil efforts would be more the problem. If it's really cold, it will get into adding nickel sometimes as well as the standard low hydrogen efforts. Without specifics on temps and materials there's not much else that can be added.
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 10-05-2007 23:13
Well - you're dealing with Sourdough aka "Alaskan Assassin" - what do you want to know?

Tok, Alaska 1999 -67

Siberia Ridge,Wyoming 2007 -36

"stacks, racks, nipples, and cracks - we got ya covered"
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 10-06-2007 04:56
our company built the primary heat exchangers for a prudoe bay project. the steel was very very "boingy" can't remember the type but everything was cold specific except 7018 la +
they were featured on a documentary 'Dangerous Alaska' I do know this was temperamental as far as spatter, everything stuck to it so i would assume it was a higher nickel content.
i ll ask qc and they will give me more specifics. things were tightly controlled as a chemistry restricted project.
darren
Parent - By Sourdough (****) Date 10-08-2007 23:28
My Pa did a lot of work on the "slope". Welded on the transalaska pipeline. Drove the ice roads. Drilled offshore. He's got some stories that will chill you to the bone.

When he was a lad about my age he spent two solid weeks making a 220 ft water well. He spent an hour drilling, and 22 hours trying to keep things thawed out. Space heaters, weed burners, hair dryers, plug in engine heaters, tarps  -  You name it he was doing it. The camper he was staying in was frigid and iced up through and through until he put a tarp over the roof , over the foot of ice and snow that had collected. Thats pretty slick if you ask me.............

Good lord we have it made nowadays!!
Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 10-09-2007 18:28
Do you at least know what your application will be? Pipe? Structure? Machinery?
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 10-09-2007 18:58
Guy's, I appreciate the input.  Sorry for the lack of detail.  I've got myself pretty well reoriented now.  Thanks!
Parent - - By Bonniweldor (**) Date 10-11-2007 11:27
Diffusible hydrogen is the enemy.  Absolutely clean joint preparation and consumables are essential.  Absolutely clean handling of the same is essential.  Houskeeping and workmanship cannot be overstated.  This will have to confront the usual urge for the production rush.  Long post weld hydrogen bakeout is recommended, especially for conditions with significant restraint.

Watch that many petrochemical applications have restrictions on Ni in the weld metal to 1% out of concern for SCC.  This may be based more on historical subjectivity than real, but the concern is still there and should be assessed.  Evaluate process fluid with potential for SCC sensitivity of the weldment.

Suggest to keep the preheat and interpass on the high side and weld beads small as feasible; to keep the deposited weld metal per unit length small, toward maximizing tempering and transformation of previous weld passes due to direct weld heat.  Everybody realizes this compromizes production efficiency, but the goal of certain high weld integrity should define the manufactured product.  Suggest run some repersentative test welds, section and metallographically prepare to a fine polish and etch to evaluate heat affects for respective parameters. 

Watch that the temperature extremes of the bulk base metal between farication temperatures and service temperatures accounts for geometrig thermal expansion and/or contraction in order toward minimizing the effects of thermal induced cold spring effects which may be concentrated at the weld.

As regards the base metal, ASME has many classifications of carbon steel materials that satisfy low temperatur service requirments.  There is significant added testing associated with this certification.  No material should be used on site that does not have the specific identification and material certification in hand.  User must verify that material cert conforms to product specification (eg ASME) in all respects and leave no stone unturned with this.  Given the tight supplies, many materials are comming from all parts of the questionable world, by way of a series of unconcerned international distributors before it is delivered to site.  The project should plan to spend money to verify properties should origin information be suspect. 

Project absolutely must implement a program of PMI for every peice used in production.  Imagine what would happen if a piece of P5 material were used where P1 is specified; a Canadian refiner did to the toon of 800M$.
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 10-11-2007 17:03
Absolutely excellent post!!!!!  Exactly the information that I already knew but needed some expert reassurance on... thanks!!!!  On another note, I've seen recent studies er-evaluating that 1% nickel requirement...
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-13-2007 15:43
Yeah! but all they are  -  are STUDIES!!!

I prefer factual, concrete, empirical evidence on my plate as I'm sure you would rather have also,
thanks. :) ;) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Need some smart people... Oil & Gas types

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