Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / D1.2 ALuminum PQR / WPS Question
- - By eekpod (****) Date 10-20-2007 13:47
Do WPS's and PQR's for aluminum expire after so many years like they do for the bridge code??
I don't see any mention of it, so my inclination is no, but I'd like a second opinion.  thanks chris
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-20-2007 14:20
They are eternal, unless you change something or your contract says otherwise.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 10-21-2007 21:31
Thanks, that's what I thought, but I wanted to make sure I didn't miss it somewhere.  (like I did for the bridge code).  Chris
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 10-22-2007 11:21
Please bear with me, I've got three different projects going on in three different codes, and I've never worked w/ the aluminum code before.

Here's my question,  Can a PQR that's qualified w/ a backing bar, be used to write a WPS that won't have a backing bar and will be backgouged and welded on the second side??

"Table 3.1 Limitations of Essential Variables of a WPS" has an "X" in Backing"a change from permanent backing to temp or no backing, which tells me, no I can't go from a WPS w/ backing to no backing.

It also has an "X" in Backgouging "Omission, but no inclusion of" which tells me if I include backgouging I'm ok, but I can't leave it out.

SO the way I'm reading it it looks like both issues apply and that doesn't make sence.  Please clarify thanks.  Chris
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-23-2007 03:38
I don't have D1.2 handy, so my comments are "memory based" and that's a pretty shaky foundation to build upon!

If I remember correctly, a double groove weld that is back gouged or a partial joint penetration groove weld are both typically considered to be welds made with backing.

If you qualified the procedure with backing, you have to use backing (again, a groove that is back gouged or a partial joint penetration are considered "with backing"), you can not weld the groove from one side without backing.

If you qualified without backing, you can weld single sided groove welds without backing, welds with backing, or welds that are back gouged.

I hope I haven't lead you astray.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 10-24-2007 12:51
Al, thanks for your reply.  Now that I've had some time to sit down and study the code, I agree with what you are saying.  the other day I realized that our PQR/WPS was done w/ a backing bar, and the parts we are getting ready to fab would not have a backing bar, and I had to make a quick decision on the fly.

FOI (for our information) Table 3.1 Essential variables of WPS, will not allow one to change from a permanent backing to a temporary backing or no backing.  Also you can't omit the backgouge, but it can be included.

Also Table 3.9 Essential varaibles for the welder, the welder is not certified if the omission of backing is done when he tested w/ a backing bar.

Both these issues apply to my situation, so I'l have to qualify a PQR/WPS,  thanks  Chris
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 04-22-2010 11:36
Well here it is 2 1/2 years later and I have to re-qualify some more welders with aluminum, and I've purged all the information I learned from back then, see what happens whe you don't do something all the time, anyway.

Aluminum D 1.2  Table 3.9 "Welding Personnel Peroformance Essential Variables Changes Requiring Requalification"

"Welders- The omission of backing (if used in the WPQR test)"  has an X in in which means it applys in my case.

Why would I have to re-certify a welder if he passed the test with a backing bar, but now if he has to backgouge and weld the second side, re test?  That doesn't make sence to me.
I could understand if he tested and passed doing a backgouge on his plate test, that he hasn't proved he could fuse to a backing bar, but because he backgouges we know he'll most likely get full penetration through the joint.
Chris
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 04-24-2010 01:07
When a welder is qualified with backing, he is qualified to weld CJP with backing or when the first side joint is back gouged and welded from the second side to complete the CJP.

Partial joint penetration groove welds and those that are back gouged are considered to be welded with backing. Refer to D1.1-1997 (that's the one I had on my desk at the time I looked this up) clause 2.5.1. More than likely the latest edition will have the same clause. 

You do not have to requalify the welders that were qualified with backing if you are now goint to employ BG before welding the second side.

Best regards - Al
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / D1.2 ALuminum PQR / WPS Question

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill