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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Clarification of tungsten variables....
- - By yorkiepap (***) Date 11-09-2007 15:36
Hey gents,
I'm interested in your personal opinions, experience, and decisions on your choice of the various tungstens available. I hope Lawrence will input, as I know his experience level has really provided sound information to those who need qualified answers.

I keep reading all the opinions posted on various forums, documentation from the manuf. of welders & tungsten, testing/results documentation, and there appears to be quite a bit of variance of information. So, I decided to "play" with all the info. available.

Ok, I have done an extensive experimentation with the tungstens available for TIG and used mild/hardened steels, sheetmetal, aluminum, SS, titanium, and thicknesses ranging from .032-.500. I maintained a testing logbook on the results of each test and really did a lot of alternating of range settings(frequency,pulse/no-pulse,heat, pre/post flow, down slope, & clean width area). In addition, I will note that my TIG is an inverter with .5-300hz freq.,10-200A available. I used ER70S-2, ER70S-3, ER70S-6, 308/L, 309, 4043, 5356, & 5556. I will say that I did not use pure tungsten for any tests. All tests were with ceriated, thoriated, zirconated, lanthanated, and sizes from .040-1/8" and I used 100% Argon exclusively as I didn't feel like getting into the different gas combinations. Mainly, I wanted to determine if there really is a true "all-around" tungsten other than 2% Thor. that seems to be the prevalent choice. To my surprise, there is.....2% Lanthanum(blue). The 1.5% Lan.(gold) would be 2nd choice. I found this tungsten to be quite a workhorse for all the variables I subjected it to. Also, included in the testing were cup size changes, stickout, and varying the tip from small flat to pointed to balled. Fascinating results and quite a learning process.

Since I have chosen the 2% Lanthanated because of results, why would there be a preference of 1.5% over 2% by all the recommendations of the professional technical minds?

Do those who swear by 2% Thoriated ever try 1.5/2% Lanthanated?

Do our teaching institutions provide the various tungstens, especially Lan., or is there a cost prohibition?

Do any of you have a reluctance or is there a detriment to Lan.?

Anyway, I hope to hear all your responses and hope I have provided some "food for thought" for those who have never tried the Lan. ...............Denny
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 11-09-2007 17:04 Edited 11-09-2007 17:08
Hey Denny

I guess I have posted pretty frequently about tungstens over the years.

To speak specifically to your post. 

I have no real prefrence in electrodes for manual DCEN GTAW of materials of any thickness. I view Thorium, Cerium and all the flavors of Lanthanum to be pretty much equal. 

For Semiautomatic GTAW (with AVC adaptive feedback control) our trials proved that Lanthanum 1.5 (bavarian alloys) was the most consistant. This was important because we had schedules that called for 300+ arc strikes and arc on times that could run as long as 9 hours. Other electrodes (even some with the same class by different vendors) would tend to accumulate dust at the tip from the emitters that are produced during arc on time, this dust would have a negative effect on arc voltage control and cause an inconsistant arc with less favorable bead profiles.

For DCEN and AC combined use  I prefer Cerium (orange)  Very versatile and if the cerium overheats it tends to round at the tip rather than forming nodules or spitting/splitting.  Lanthanum  tends to have a rougher end when overheated on AC and more arc wandering at lower amperages than with cerium.

For AC specific applications I prefer Zirconium for lower amp fillets because it will keep an arc at the tip a bit better <I find this especially true with inverters with variable frequency>.  Cerium is next in my opinion.  Don't waste money on Pure (green) electrodes.

The cost difference between Thorium, Cerium, Zirconium and Lanthanum are really just a few bucks per box so I don't see price as a limiting factor.

In the entry level training atmosphere it is tough to keep the learners from sharpening both ends of the electrode and making identification impossible. Still we use a variety of different electrodes so the students can see what happens when each is overheated.

So in the end many choices can be good... And it is also good to keep in mind that Tungsten Electrodes are produced by the Powder Mettalurgy process and different manufacturers are going to make electrodes of the same AWS conformance catigories that may have very different hardness, fracture and extended arc on qualities. This is especially evident in electrodes 0.040 and less in diameter.

But for the average Joe, it makes little difference which electrode is chosen for DCEN, Thorium, Cerium, Lanthanum (family) or the mixes. As long as they comply with procedures. Plain Carbon, Stainless, Ti, Waspalloy, whatever... For most manual operations between 15 and 100 amps they are indistinguishable.
Parent - By yorkiepap (***) Date 11-10-2007 01:07
Hey Lawrence,
Thank you for your input and I did go thru all the previous posts on tungsten and make notes for referencing for my test procedures. Mainly, I wanted to establish if I could "get away" with just one tungsten for my applications. It would be my best interest and quality concerns to use the optimum parameters as you suggest for the ceriated and zirconated tungstens as my test notes also indicated very favorable results, especially with arc stability. I have made a nice simple chart to reference tungstens for premium welds for the metals & thicknesses I use. Since 75% of my craft & custom items are >.125 and in excess of 100A, I will use the Lan. and use the Ceriated and Zirc. for <.125 and thin Al. with <100A. I appreciate your sharing your knowledge to those who seek superb advice from superb experience.....Denny
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Clarification of tungsten variables....

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